Police Shootings
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27-09-2017, 11:35 AM
RE: Police Shootings
(27-09-2017 11:29 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 11:23 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  So - you don't expect much - just perfection...



Yeah - that's reasonable...

Dodgy
I expect a higher standard.
Just like I do of any other profession.
That is what it is to be a professional.
Maybe we should just start hiring the guy who runs the tilt a whirl to be a pilot?
If we can't expect cops to be good at judging when it's ok to kill people what standard is left?
Isn't the cop supposed to be better at that then the greeter at Walmart?
Is it unreasonable to expect that he will be?


Higher than " a reasonable person"???

What do you want?
"Hyperreasonable" ?" super reasonable"?

Quit being a reactionary.

You've got human beings to work with.

You can only hold them to standards that human beings are capable of.


Or, you can get with the genetic engineering and create us some "supercops".

We await your results.

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27-09-2017, 11:36 AM
Police Shootings
It's easier to swallow cops making mistakes when the mistake didn't involve gun usage.

For instance there's some but less grief over taser misuse, even in the cases it leas to a death because misuse and mistake is more equatable to why a mistake was ever made with a firearm in use.

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27-09-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Police Shootings
There's a lot of excluded middle going on here. "Having superior judgment" doesn't mean nor imply "perfection".
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27-09-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: Police Shootings
(27-09-2017 11:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It's easier to swallow cops making mistakes when the mistake didn't involve gun usage.

For instance there's some but less grief over taser misuse, even in the cases it leas to a death because misuse and mistake is more equatable to why a mistake was ever made with a firearm in use.

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And yet, dead is dead.

The difference??

It's emotionalism pretending to be reason.

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27-09-2017, 11:41 AM
RE: Police Shootings
(27-09-2017 11:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 11:18 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  I guess we should erase all those involuntary manslaughter off the books then.

Vehicular homicide? Not guilty. I didn't mean to kill that family of four. I just wasn't paying attention when I crossed the center line and hit their car head on.

Wrong.

Your guilt is that you weren't paying attention - and that lead to death. That's chargeable.


But I have personally seen a case where a 12 year old girl was run over and killed by a pickup truck ( I was one of her 4 pallbearers) - and I felt sorry for the truck driver.

He was in no way at fault. He was just there.

Not every case is there a " guilty" party.
How is that deemed?

Seems you have to view a "guilt" in an all or none responsibility way. It's not all black/white to when fault/guilt is involved.

At all times with a person, personal responsibility to safety is something to themselves and mankind. The social bonding and drifting is always a connector.

Is cases like that guilty as in to the law is different but actions are what humans are made of, they have recourse. Being even a walking person but behind control of something with great force, they are the actor in the events that play.

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27-09-2017, 11:43 AM
RE: Police Shootings
I have no problem with a cop who made a mistake having the same kind of consequences as a surgeon whose mistake costs a patient's life. Evaluate the circumstances and if the incident rises to manslaughter, it rises to manslaughter and merits a prison sentence.

And if the "mistake" includes lying about what happened, planting a gun, etc., the penalty should be automatic termination plus prison time.

If the "mistakes" are overwhelmingly affecting people with one color of skin, I expect police departments to take big steps to train and manage their officers differently, rather than close ranks and defend the fear and bad judgment of their worst members.
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27-09-2017, 11:54 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2017 12:47 PM by BikerDude.)
RE: Police Shootings
(27-09-2017 11:37 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  There's a lot of excluded middle going on here. "Having superior judgment" doesn't mean nor imply "perfection".

Yes exactly.
And how about the fact that they are supposed to be trained to make these decisions?
They aren't supposed to be perfect but they are supposed to be better than the average person.
Competent at least.

I think a big problem is that cops seem to routinely put the life of the other person as less important than their own.
They want to make the case that if they feel at all threatened it's better to shoot first and avoid the risk of them being shot.
I don't think that is the correct standard.
I don't think it's enough that they "feel threatened"
I don't require super cops.
I require cops that seem to be adequate at doing their job without gunning people down.
Is that too much to ask?

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27-09-2017, 12:22 PM
RE: Police Shootings
We see cases of involuntary manslaughter every single day. The thing is, we tend to blame the person responsible if there are no mitigating factors at all, which so often happens to be the case with cops.

Driving just a bit over the speed limit and killing a very careless pedestrian? Justified mistake. Being a rich 24 year old, driving your Porsche at 200m/h, losing control of it and killing a mother and a child in a parked car (actual recent incident here)? Well.

This is the reason you hear it on the news all the time. Not because a cop shot someone, but because most of the times, it was for seemingly no good reason at all.

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27-09-2017, 12:31 PM
RE: Police Shootings
In my opinion, cops in the USA have an enormous problem when it comes to their violent actions toward their fellow citizens. If we compensate for population they kill 6 times more people than Canadian police officers and these ones are still pretty violent when compared to some other police forces. if you take both into account crime rates and population, american police forces still would kill twice more people than the Canadian one. In addition to killings, the American police forces are also responsible for a higher level of body injuries than other comparable police forces. To me this shows a deep rooted problem in mentality and training within the US police forces. I think their model of intervention and training is based too heavily on coercision and repression and not enough on negociation and cooperation. When you are a hammer, everything can look like a nail.

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27-09-2017, 12:35 PM
RE: Police Shootings
(27-09-2017 11:17 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 10:54 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If a cop abuses their vested power, or commits crimes - they should absolutely be held accountable.

And yet part of the problem is that they rarely are.

Even if there is video of the officer shooting an unarmed person in the back as they run away.
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