Police Shootings
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30-09-2017, 08:55 AM
RE: Police Shootings
US police nationwide shot and killed 492 people in the first six months of this year (2017), a number nearly identical to the count for the same period in each of the prior two years... Also in the first six months of this year, 27 unarmed people have been fatally shot by police, compared with 34 for the same period in 2016 and 50 in the first six months of 2015.

The Washington Post, 1 July 2017, Ted Mellnik, Steven Rich, Jerrel Floyd and Catherine York

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30-09-2017, 11:55 AM
RE: Police Shootings
(27-09-2017 10:54 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Rather than hijack another thread..

Regarding police shootings...

The first reaction of many, anytime there's a cop shooting an unarmed/ Minority/ underage/ ect person - is to assume the cop is guilty - and they won't be satisfied until the cop is in prison.

....
There's a problem with that mindset.

What if the " victim" needed shooting?? (Sometimes they do).

And - what if it was just a bad mistake, simply because of circumstance?? It can happen.

If it' s simply a horrible mistake - do you really want the cop to go to prison for it? Because if you do - you're setting everyone up for failure.

Why?

Because cops are human. They make mistakes.

You HAVE to make allowances. If a cop makes a mistake that any reasonable person could be expected to make then the cop isn' t guilty.

Guilt implies malice - it implies intention.

If you hold a cop to a " zero tolerance" on mistakes - any reasonable person - the very people you WANT to be cops - will quit, and go find employment less likely to end them up in prison. You'll end up with the worst sort of psychos staying.

Nobody is advocating giving cops " a license to kill" - it's bullshit to imply they do.

If a cop abuses their vested power, or commits crimes - they should absolutely be held accountable.

Ok so by the same token if I as a nurse kill your spouse or other member of your family by virtue of making a mistake then I should get off right ?
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30-09-2017, 12:02 PM
RE: Police Shootings
(30-09-2017 11:55 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 10:54 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Rather than hijack another thread..

Regarding police shootings...

The first reaction of many, anytime there's a cop shooting an unarmed/ Minority/ underage/ ect person - is to assume the cop is guilty - and they won't be satisfied until the cop is in prison.

....
There's a problem with that mindset.

What if the " victim" needed shooting?? (Sometimes they do).

And - what if it was just a bad mistake, simply because of circumstance?? It can happen.

If it' s simply a horrible mistake - do you really want the cop to go to prison for it? Because if you do - you're setting everyone up for failure.

Why?

Because cops are human. They make mistakes.

You HAVE to make allowances. If a cop makes a mistake that any reasonable person could be expected to make then the cop isn' t guilty.

Guilt implies malice - it implies intention.

If you hold a cop to a " zero tolerance" on mistakes - any reasonable person - the very people you WANT to be cops - will quit, and go find employment less likely to end them up in prison. You'll end up with the worst sort of psychos staying.

Nobody is advocating giving cops " a license to kill" - it's bullshit to imply they do.

If a cop abuses their vested power, or commits crimes - they should absolutely be held accountable.

Ok so by the same token if I as a nurse kill your spouse or other member of your family by virtue of making a mistake then I should get off right ?

Ask " how high is up??"


It' s just as easy to answer...


Was your decision that killed the patient a bad diagnosis, bad luck, or you being negligent or homicidal??

Did the patient mislead you?? I've been told by a doctor that patients lie all the time - making a good diagnosis harder if not impossible.

Don't ask vague hypotheticals as a method of stifling a discussion.

.......................................

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30-09-2017, 12:19 PM
RE: Police Shootings
(28-09-2017 07:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(28-09-2017 07:43 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  But to the average person it's looking like the Police very often ARE THE HOODLUM's.
They aren't only shooting gang members.
Sometimes it seems to be anyone who looks like the might be.
When you find out after that fact that the victim wasn't armed and wasn't a gang member and didn't "need shooting" they should get a pass?
Just because they "felt threatened" by someone who looks like a gang member?

" very often"??

Bullshit.

If the cops were so corrupt, 911 would be the least called number in an emergeny.

....

Far more people are killed by doctors than cops.... But for some odd reason, nobody is afraid to call a doctor when there' s a problem...

Trouble is that medic related deaths don't have the racial profile of cop related deaths.
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30-09-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Police Shootings
(30-09-2017 12:19 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(28-09-2017 07:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  " very often"??

Bullshit.

If the cops were so corrupt, 911 would be the least called number in an emergeny.

....

Far more people are killed by doctors than cops.... But for some odd reason, nobody is afraid to call a doctor when there' s a problem...

Trouble is that medic related deaths don't have the racial profile of cop related deaths.

I wouldn't be so sure of that without seeing some good data.

.......................................

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30-09-2017, 02:41 PM
RE: Police Shootings
Quote:You HAVE to make allowances. If a cop makes a mistake that any reasonable person could be expected to make then the cop isn' t guilty.


Odd, isn't it that other industrialized nations do not seem to suffer from the same
epidemic of killer kops, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015...-countries

Quote:By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

I know... they're "afraid for their lives" because while they have guns, body armor, and six other cops as back ups the other guy "might have" had a weapon.

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30-09-2017, 03:18 PM
RE: Police Shootings
(30-09-2017 02:41 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:You HAVE to make allowances. If a cop makes a mistake that any reasonable person could be expected to make then the cop isn' t guilty.


Odd, isn't it that other industrialized nations do not seem to suffer from the same
epidemic of killer kops, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015...-countries

Quote:By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

I know... they're "afraid for their lives" because while they have guns, body armor, and six other cops as back ups the other guy "might have" had a weapon.

Question; what factors are unique to (or are uniquely exaggerated above other similar nations in) the US that makes police officers so afraid as a group to increase their kill rates are so much higher annually?

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30-09-2017, 04:02 PM
RE: Police Shootings
(30-09-2017 03:18 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 02:41 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Odd, isn't it that other industrialized nations do not seem to suffer from the same
epidemic of killer kops, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015...-countries


I know... they're "afraid for their lives" because while they have guns, body armor, and six other cops as back ups the other guy "might have" had a weapon.

Question; what factors are unique to (or are uniquely exaggerated above other similar nations in) the US that makes police officers so afraid as a group to increase their kill rates are so much higher annually?


Other countries don't have a bunch of asshats who think " gansta", "pimp" and " mobbed up" are legitimate job descriptions???

.......................................

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30-09-2017, 04:28 PM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2017 04:34 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Police Shootings
(30-09-2017 04:02 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 03:18 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Question; what factors are unique to (or are uniquely exaggerated above other similar nations in) the US that makes police officers so afraid as a group to increase their kill rates are so much higher annually?


Other countries don't have a bunch of asshats who think " gansta", "pimp" and " mobbed up" are legitimate job descriptions???

Unfortunately no, all countries have a presence of organised crime and a crime rate, but it's true that America has a high crime rate compared to other country with a similar level of development. Like I mention in one of my earliest post (post number 19), even if we adjust for population AND crime rate, American police officers do kill significantly more people than their counterpart in Canada or Western Europe. Higher level of criminality and larger population certainly increase the number of people killed by the police, but it's not the only reason. Here are what I consider other potential culprit for the US situation (it doesn't mean that they are responsible, but only that they could be and should be studied and be considered seriously).

1) Massive disparity between rich and poor people.

2) Urban planning tactics that create ghettos where violence and poverty is systemic.

3) Inappropriate training of police officers and violent police culture.

4) Repressive system of justice.

5) An overly armed population mistrustful of governmental authorities.

6) A lower number of female police officer vs male police officer compared to other western democracies.

7) A militarisation of the police equipment and tactics

8) A long history of racism in police deployment and tactic

9) finance difficulties for certain police department in some areas compare to others.

What do you think about those since its absolutly clear that the US police forces are using lethal force more often then their counterparts in other similar countries?

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30-09-2017, 05:57 PM
RE: Police Shootings
(30-09-2017 04:02 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 03:18 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Question; what factors are unique to (or are uniquely exaggerated above other similar nations in) the US that makes police officers so afraid as a group to increase their kill rates are so much higher annually?


Other countries don't have a bunch of asshats who think " gansta", "pimp" and " mobbed up" are legitimate job descriptions???

Pretty much every country has gangs and similar lowlife groups. In Australia we have nation-wide biker gangs, localised youth gangs, limited ethnic gangs, traditional mobs.

Yet we still don't have the police kill streaks you Yanks do (needless to say accounting for population) despite the bikers' known arms trafficking behavours, youth gang hooliganry, and ethnic gang hate crimes, and all manner of blood-feuds.

Perhaps the presence of a gang culture isn't necessarily the trigger.

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