Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
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06-03-2017, 02:15 AM
Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
Supreme Court in it's ruling claims that there are no arguments which would justify differentiation between situation of child and fetus [in regard to living space in house].

Supreme Court verdicts aren't binding to courts of lower instances but said courts often look on them while making decisions.

It seems that anti-choice crowd got another argument, now authoritarian fools would have something more to back their rhetoric's on; women might have won some time ago when gov stepped back, but it seems it was just tactical move and reproduction right still are in danger and they would be as long as L&J is in power.

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06-03-2017, 02:47 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
What is the legal setup in Poland? 'Cos surely Supreme court simply rules on interpretation of the laws? Ergo, problem seems to me to be with the laws and not necessarily the court - unless it's a blatant misreading of the law to favour a particular judgement?

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06-03-2017, 03:00 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2017 03:08 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
(06-03-2017 02:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  What is the legal setup in Poland? 'Cos surely Supreme court simply rules on interpretation of the laws? Ergo, problem seems to me to be with the laws and not necessarily the court - unless it's a blatant misreading of the law to favour a particular judgement?

Supreme Court is simply highest instance, it's rulings doesn't make precedent that all else must follow, but they still influence verdicts of lower courts which look to SC for guidance sometimes.

It was case about living space in a house, guess the family wanted bigger home. Lower courts didn't think that fetus should be counted in calculation of yardage per person, SC thought is should claiming that that there are no arguments which would justify differentiation between situation of child and fetus. For me it is simple idiocy - fetus may be or may not be born and should have no bearing on verdict, just like lower courts said so.

ETA: In some cases Polish law give fetus conditional legal capacity - that is he will be subjected to some law if born, but it something like father acknowledging child before it is born. Still verdict is another precedent and some less ideologically inclined experts don't see it as a good thing.

Here's the entire article if you want to use translator: http://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/...dziny.read

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06-03-2017, 03:09 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
So... what kind of decision would this affect? Housing given to a family with a pregnant woman? Or minimal legal space, or something?

This is really weird. I don't know if I'm undertanding it right. Are they saying the pregnant woman basically needs twice as much living space?

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06-03-2017, 03:14 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
(06-03-2017 03:09 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  So... what kind of decision would this affect? Housing given to a family with a pregnant woman? Or minimal legal space, or something?

No idea. I would say that this will affect cases where minimal legal space is concerned, but it depends on if lower courts will want to follow SC ruling. Article is saying that it make mess in inheritance laws.

Quote:This is really weird. I don't know if I'm undertanding it right. Are they saying the pregnant woman basically needs twice as much living space?

In a way. They need more living space cause provision is such that fetus will be born. Still this judgement didn't set standard that all courts must follow.

It's primarily ideological argument to anti-choice crowd which now can scream about how SC agree with their nonsense. Or at least I see it as such, as I'm not law expert and I lack knowledge to speculate what such ruling will entail.

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06-03-2017, 03:19 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
I see, thanks.

Would this mean that someone who is currently at their minimum level of living space and gets pregnant is awarded a bigger house by the government, or what? The landlord has to make an extension?

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06-03-2017, 03:26 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
(06-03-2017 03:19 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I see, thanks.

Would this mean that someone who is currently at their minimum level of living space and gets pregnant is awarded a bigger house by the government, or what? The landlord has to make an extension?

It was about apartment provided by employer so it's possible that employers could expect some demands about financial help to extend living space or to provide bigger apartment but possible doesn't mean likely. Still I didn't look at that in this way and now when I'm thinking about it it can have unforeseen consequences.

Honestly I don't expect much of law trouble with it, but I know shit about law so there's that.

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06-03-2017, 03:30 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
Hehe okay, thanks Smile

Yeah, this seems problematic at best. Let's assume it works that way, I get pregnant and demand a bigger living space, and I have to be given one. Then I have an abortion. What then? Am I kicked out?

I'm just brainstorming Wink It seems pretty stupid to me. A fetus/baby doesn't need much living space to begin with, even if it's born. It just lies there crying and shitting. Not as much as an older child. Put it in a cupboard or something.

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06-03-2017, 03:35 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
(06-03-2017 03:30 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Hehe okay, thanks Smile

Yeah, this seems problematic at best. Let's assume it works that way, I get pregnant and demand a bigger living space, and I have to be given one. Then I have an abortion. What then? Am I kicked out?

I'm just brainstorming Wink It seems pretty stupid to me. A fetus/baby doesn't need much living space to begin with, even if it's born. It just lies there crying and shitting. Not as much as an older child. Put it in a cupboard or something.

You won't have abortion, at least not in Poland. It's hard to get one legally. Illegally it's easier but from what little I know price isn't small.

For me it is just move in bad direction, not necessarily from law standpoint. As I said this ruling might serve as battle cry for anti-choice crowd and Poland has enough trouble at this front. Other than that I have no idea what could happen, but I wouldn't count on something good.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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06-03-2017, 05:48 AM
RE: Polish Supreme Court rules that fetus has the same right as other members of family.
So the fetus could be entitled to its own room? It seems odd, given that so many pregnancies miscarry, that housing decisions would be made based on potential babies rather than actual babies.

I hate to hear decisions like this because they fuel copycat efforts here in the US, where reproductive rights are already increasingly threatened.
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