Political Correctness.
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27-11-2013, 08:01 AM
Political Correctness.
Anyone is welcome to argue with me no holds barred as to why Hitchens should not have called religion "posion" which I agree with. And also Harris and his challenge that moderates and liberal theists fester the violent nuts out of some stupid, all be it well intended sense of "freedom of religion".

I have tried to argue with my liberal atheist friends that I am a flaming liberal socially myself. I accept that religion will exist and from a government standpoint it has to be protected, but in no case should it get a taboo that prevents any criticism or blasphemy at all.

I liken religion to the volcano, it can provide fertile soil and create land, but only a fool would think that because it is dormant for a long time that it can never blow it's top.

The Dark Ages, slavery, genocide of Native Americans, sexism, 9/11 are all examples of what people do when they read their holy books and call it "truth". I get called the bad guy for doing this.

I am well reasoned in accepting that 7 billion people are NOT going to become atheists, especially over night. It is not my goal to end religion, but put it on notice that it should NOT be humanity's top priority and does NOT deserve a pedestal.

We still live in a world where girls/women, are shot for wanting an education. Where women cant drive, and are stoned to death for adultery. Even in our secular west we have right wing nuts trying to pass laws controlling the bodies of women and trying to turn back voting rights, and even today gay marriage is still banned in most states.

I think political correctness is the wrong way to go about it. I think common law is the only way to go about it. I am for laws that say don't call for violence and don't act out in violence. I am not for always saying "don't offend" or "don't blaspheme".

I have no compunction calling thugs thugs and assholes assholes. If you think women are property, FUCK YOU. If you think women should not have control over their own bodies, FUCK YOU. If you are more concerned with what your god gets called than the actual violence done in the name of your god, AGAIN FUCK YOU.

Does this mean we should always cuss people out in every context? No, it just means that blanket solutions of censorship in the tactic of "never" don't work. I think the world would be a much more peaceful place if the worst any human had to worry about is a "fuck you", instead of arrest or physical violence.

I stand by calling religion Poison, not to get rid of it, just like you cant remove a volcano. But you should always be watching it to insure it doesn't blow. The only way to do that is to allow for questioning and even blasphemy.

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27-11-2013, 08:47 AM
RE: Political Correctness.
Not sure you are going to get many takers there.

But I can say "fuck you" if it will make you feel better.

Angel

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27-11-2013, 09:09 AM
RE: Political Correctness.
You Know I can be Very Un-PC, Brian. But there are times I do try very hard to do so. Depends on the circumstances.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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27-11-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: Political Correctness.
I believe there is a difference between PC and tact. PC refers to the broader statements that a person makes not directed at anyone in particular (such as saying "fuck those bitches") to anyone who is listening (like a Facebook status or a televised statement). Tact is in reference to how you choose your words when privately conversing, for instance, I'm talking to you about how best to reform gay marriage and you're saying "Oh yes, let the fags marry." while not a public statement it alters the tone of our discussion and while you may be agreeing with what I say, it's derogatory nonetheless and detracts from your statement.

It sounds like you're trying to say that you hate tact more than you hate PC.

How I feel about tact: Not always necessary, depends on the relationship you have with the person and the relationship you WANT to have with said person.

How I feel about PC: It's gotten a bit out of hand, I think the message matters more than the words used to describe it, and trying to institutionalize "professionalism" in speech mannerisms can really deceive your audience. If you say "the homosexual community" rather than saying "fags" which is what you WANT to say, then you are being institutionally deceptive about your position.

I guess what I'm saying is that certain words have hues of meaning, and this should be considered on an individual basis (what are you trying to say?) rather than some sort of rules about how you are supposed to say certain things (which detracts from their meaning).
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27-11-2013, 03:15 PM
RE: Political Correctness.
(27-11-2013 09:09 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  You Know I can be Very Un-PC, Brian. But there are times I do try very hard to do so. Depends on the circumstances.

It's not a matter of "trying". Really this post isn't a challenge to others to say "fuck you" in every context at every turn.

More of a warning to say "never" is a bad tactic. I really warn people not to play that game because long term power shifts and the powers that be may not always like what you want to bitch about.

I am actually inviting both PC atheists and theists to defend "never" as a tactic when it comes to offending others.

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27-11-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: Political Correctness.
(27-11-2013 11:53 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  I believe there is a difference between PC and tact. PC refers to the broader statements that a person makes not directed at anyone in particular (such as saying "fuck those bitches") to anyone who is listening (like a Facebook status or a televised statement). Tact is in reference to how you choose your words when privately conversing, for instance, I'm talking to you about how best to reform gay marriage and you're saying "Oh yes, let the fags marry." while not a public statement it alters the tone of our discussion and while you may be agreeing with what I say, it's derogatory nonetheless and detracts from your statement.

It sounds like you're trying to say that you hate tact more than you hate PC.

How I feel about tact: Not always necessary, depends on the relationship you have with the person and the relationship you WANT to have with said person.

How I feel about PC: It's gotten a bit out of hand, I think the message matters more than the words used to describe it, and trying to institutionalize "professionalism" in speech mannerisms can really deceive your audience. If you say "the homosexual community" rather than saying "fags" which is what you WANT to say, then you are being institutionally deceptive about your position.

I guess what I'm saying is that certain words have hues of meaning, and this should be considered on an individual basis (what are you trying to say?) rather than some sort of rules about how you are supposed to say certain things (which detracts from their meaning).

I'd rather someone be able to show their bigotry than to force them to hide it. Forced politeness does not change their attitudes. If they are open about it I know who my target is.

I also don't want other things such as humor and history being silenced out of some well intended, but wrongheaded tactic.

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27-11-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: Political Correctness.
Political correctness just makes up funny words for what would be offensive things even if they actually aren't.
Its a insane. Oh I'm sorry, its reality challenged.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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27-11-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: Political Correctness.
Offending others is fine, however unwarranted insults aren't useful IMO. For instance making a broad statement about a person because you learned a couple of things about them. If you do that then congratulations, you have probably
1. Assumed to know more than you do about that person.
2. Successfully made that person either angry or uncomfortable, and therefore less receptive towards anything you are saying.
3. Painted over their individuality with your broad brush of judgment.

People do not respond well when they feel they are being personally attacked in my experience. I know I don't. That's why I agree with what TheKetola was saying about tact.

These examples are of course just my opinion.
----------------
Tact: "I don't see any legitimate reason to accept your belief as true."
No Tact: "You believe that? You are an idiot!"

Tact: "Don't you think what you said there is a bit sexist?"
No Tact: "You are a sexist ass. Learn to respect women, you dick."

Tact: "What you said there kind of sounds like racism to me, is that how you meant it?"
No Tact: "You racist MotherF#%#&$. I hate people like you, you are worth less than dirt."
------------
There is a difference between trying to tear down an argument, and trying to tear down a person. I don't see anybody winning if you attack the person instead of the idea. Just a circle of hate them because they hate us because we hate them.

So if I wasn't clear, yes ridicule the crap out of beliefs, ideas, and rituals that are ridiculous. But personally insulting others is not an effective form of communication IMO.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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27-11-2013, 05:52 PM
RE: Political Correctness.
Quote:Offending others is fine, however unwarranted insults aren't useful IMO.

When people say this it amounts to "When I do it and the way I do It is ok, but when you do it and the way you do it is not ok."

You are still stuck with "who gets to decide when something is warranted and when it is not?"

Subjective if you ask me.

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27-11-2013, 05:56 PM
RE: Political Correctness.
I didn't say you can't do it, I just said it isn't useful for much.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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