Political Views
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01-08-2017, 02:59 PM
Political Views
Hello everyone! I've been doing a lot of research on politics and Social Issues for the past few months. Since becoming an Atheist, I have slowly started to become more liberal on social issues such as Gay Marriage. I'm liberal in these areas because the conservative viewpoints are illogical and moslty a result of their faith. So it's safe to say that I agree with political parties such as Democrats and Libertarians on these issues.

Issues I'm still studying and looking into are all things such as economic issues. I don't want to tie atheism and politics together too much, but I have found out that most atheist lean left. Now some are Libertarians, Republicans, etc. but I will hear people say that ( such as Stephan Molyneux) and others a lot of anti-left things and he has used Europe as an example saying they are falling apart. One reason he gives is because of all the Muslims coming in and trying to take over. I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure that's the gist of a lot of what he says ( feel free to correct or "enlighten" me).

My questions(answer as many or little as you want):
•Why do you lean left?
• Why do you lean right?
•Why are you neither?
• How do you feel about people such as Stephan Molyneux who are not religious, but speak against a lot of what the left does? Why do you agree or disagree?
• What research can I do to educate myself and have some more concrete views on my politics? Are there any books, articles, or other sources you recommend?

Note:
Just a reminder that I don't want to tie atheism and politics together and say that one determines the other. This is not the case, BUT I would love to hear why that may or may not influence a person. Thank you all!
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01-08-2017, 03:24 PM
RE: Political Views
(01-08-2017 02:59 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  Hello everyone! I've been doing a lot of research on politics and Social Issues for the past few months. Since becoming an Atheist, I have slowly started to become more liberal on social issues such as Gay Marriage. I'm liberal in these areas because the conservative viewpoints are illogical and moslty a result of their faith. So it's safe to say that I agree with political parties such as Democrats and Libertarians on these issues.

Issues I'm still studying and looking into are all things such as economic issues. I don't want to tie atheism and politics together too much, but I have found out that most atheist lean left. Now some are Libertarians, Republicans, etc. but I will hear people say that ( such as Stephan Molyneux) and others a lot of anti-left things and he has used Europe as an example saying they are falling apart. One reason he gives is because of all the Muslims coming in and trying to take over. I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure that's the gist of a lot of what he says ( feel free to correct or "enlighten" me).

My questions(answer as many or little as you want):
•Why do you lean left?
• Why do you lean right?
•Why are you neither?
• How do you feel about people such as Stephan Molyneux who are not religious, but speak against a lot of what the left does? Why do you agree or disagree?
• What research can I do to educate myself and have some more concrete views on my politics? Are there any books, articles, or other sources you recommend?

Note:
Just a reminder that I don't want to tie atheism and politics together and say that one determines the other. This is not the case, BUT I would love to hear why that may or may not influence a person. Thank you all!

I am socially progressive and fiscally conservative. But mostly I am just cherry picking and not following any party line.

I am pro single payer health insurance because that has proven itself as the least expensive and most comprehensive healthcare by many countries for decades. People forget that we pay for the uninsured in the end one way or the other - just with one payer health care they are all able to access preventative medicine and avoid catastrophic illness and death - hence avoiding major costs. If they go to the ER once very ill, guess who bears the cost? Plus, their suffering is entirely unnecessary.

So yes, if you look closely, you can often be fiscally conservative while still socially progressive.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-08-2017, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2017 03:56 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Political Views
I lean left primarily because Republicans deny climate change, and have become more and more fact-denying, dogmatic, and extreme over my lifetime.

I used to occupy the middle and didn't care about voting. But what was the middle is now on the left.
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01-08-2017, 03:42 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2017 03:57 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Political Views
I lean left cause I despise right wing nationalism, sucking up to clergy, fear mongering, dehumanization of immigrants, authoritarian tendencies and things like opposing right to abortion or death with dignity.

As for left - left isn't oppressed saint so valid criticism is necessary to stamp out idiocy that sometimes appear there. But calling left commies or crying about how they will help muslims to dominate Europe isn't valid criticism, it's just smoke screan intended to hide real problems which right can't fix. It's easier to scream about how refugees will "rape our wimminz" than take care of economy.

I reccomend reading - among others - Leszek Kołakowski, Andrzej Walick, Zygmunt Bauman, Martin Malia and Immanuel Wallerstein. Also it's good to check statistics made by Europol or the like to see how right is making people afraid without good reason. It's best to not relly on single info source - checking what both sides have to say is good strategy.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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01-08-2017, 04:20 PM
RE: Political Views
I lean left because the status quo is never an adequate justification. I'm also more than willing to use government to protect the consumer and as a balance against ever widening income inequality.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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01-08-2017, 04:48 PM
RE: Political Views
I'm socially as well as fiscally liberal. Taxes paid by the citizens should be used to better the lives of citizens and not for any other purpose. Infrastructure, healthcare, education, things like that. The whole purpose of paying taxes is to contribute to the state and to make it a better place. The problem we face at least since the big crisis of '08 is that losses are socialized and gains privatized. I don't want my tax money to be wasted on subsidizing failing private businesses in order for them to go on speculating and gambling on the global market.

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01-08-2017, 05:25 PM
RE: Political Views
Lefty here also. The underpinning core of righthand conservatism is "resist change". Since the whole of nature is nothing but change, that stance is intrinsically absurd. It's also arrogant, because it presumes the "way we are now" is better than anything else, wholly ignoring that the "way we are now" is a change from the "way we were" and that such change came about because that's where the zeitgeist drove us. The zeitgeist ain't static and will keep driving change. Resistance, as the aliens are fond of telling us, is useless.

In practical application, the right does advocate and push for change (while pretending that it isn't change), but that such changes are, to my mind, too narrow and centered on individual selfishness rather than on enlarging the power of society so that we all flourish. Finally, the right seems hostile to intellect; I have the impression that here in the United States the cohort of humanity with mediocre intellectual faculty tends rightward because its fundamental appeals are feeble minded, simplistic and directed at emotional succor, not the more difficult ascents of reason.

Hence the right is largely brutish, thuggish, frowning, spiteful, petty and (fortunately, across the breadth of human history) ultimately overridden by the more thoughtful but more challenging advances by the left. Civilization owes all of its success to drivers from the left, because the only thing the right contributes is a mindless brake to arrest change.
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01-08-2017, 06:28 PM
RE: Political Views
(01-08-2017 03:24 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 02:59 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  Hello everyone! I've been doing a lot of research on politics and Social Issues for the past few months. Since becoming an Atheist, I have slowly started to become more liberal on social issues such as Gay Marriage. I'm liberal in these areas because the conservative viewpoints are illogical and moslty a result of their faith. So it's safe to say that I agree with political parties such as Democrats and Libertarians on these issues.

Issues I'm still studying and looking into are all things such as economic issues. I don't want to tie atheism and politics together too much, but I have found out that most atheist lean left. Now some are Libertarians, Republicans, etc. but I will hear people say that ( such as Stephan Molyneux) and others a lot of anti-left things and he has used Europe as an example saying they are falling apart. One reason he gives is because of all the Muslims coming in and trying to take over. I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure that's the gist of a lot of what he says ( feel free to correct or "enlighten" me).

My questions(answer as many or little as you want):
•Why do you lean left?
• Why do you lean right?
•Why are you neither?
• How do you feel about people such as Stephan Molyneux who are not religious, but speak against a lot of what the left does? Why do you agree or disagree?
• What research can I do to educate myself and have some more concrete views on my politics? Are there any books, articles, or other sources you recommend?

Note:
Just a reminder that I don't want to tie atheism and politics together and say that one determines the other. This is not the case, BUT I would love to hear why that may or may not influence a person. Thank you all!

I am socially progressive and fiscally conservative. But mostly I am just cherry picking and not following any party line.

I am pro single payer health insurance because that has proven itself as the least expensive and most comprehensive healthcare by many countries for decades. People forget that we pay for the uninsured in the end one way or the other - just with one payer health care they are all able to access preventative medicine and avoid catastrophic illness and death - hence avoiding major costs. If they go to the ER once very ill, guess who bears the cost? Plus, their suffering is entirely unnecessary.

So yes, if you look closely, you can often be fiscally conservative while still socially progressive.
Yes that's what I thought. It's interesting what you brought up. I'm with you on being socially progressive, but fiscally I'm going to continue to do my research. Thank you!
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01-08-2017, 06:32 PM
RE: Political Views
(01-08-2017 03:31 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  I lean left primarily because Republicans deny climate change, and have become more and more fact-denying, dogmatic, and extreme over my lifetime.

I used to occupy the middle and didn't care about voting. But what was the middle is now on the left.
Yea I agree no matter where I end up going fiscally, I'm not going down the Repulocam road anymore. Actually when I first registered as a voter over a year ago I registered republican because my dad was freaking out over the idea of me considering a third party let alone a Democrat. The pressure of the state I live in( Kentucky) didn't help either. Anyways, I will eventually change it before I vote again. Thanks!
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01-08-2017, 06:55 PM
RE: Political Views
(01-08-2017 02:59 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  ...
•Why are you neither?
...

Or both?

Sometimes I lean forward and sometimes I lean back.

(01-08-2017 02:59 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  ...
concrete views on my politics?
...

And why is 'concrete' a good thing?

Consider

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