Political correctness?
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01-06-2017, 06:39 AM
RE: Political correctness?
Here's the thing - I'm in the audience. And keep crying about them nasty women daring to join the work place; almost exclusively female - how dare they *not* be makin' sammiches for big strong men Drinking Beverage




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01-06-2017, 06:42 AM
RE: Political correctness?
(01-06-2017 06:39 AM)Vera Wrote:  Here's the thing - I'm in the audience. And keep crying about them nasty women daring to join the work place; almost exclusively female - how dare they *not* be makin' sammiches for big strong men Drinking Beverage

Is it acceptable to you to deny a person a job opportunity based exclusively on their gender and race?
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01-06-2017, 06:45 AM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2017 06:55 AM by Vera.)
RE: Political correctness?
First off, personal anecdotes mean squat, especially on the internet.

And is it okay to ask a woman if she intends to have children and not hire her because of this?

And if we're gonna be woe-is-me-ing,poor, mistreated, white men, let's go to the board of directors of ANY big company, see if it's "exclusively female". Wanna make a bet? Put your money where you mouth is? I mean, it's soooo hard for white, middle-aged men these days, isn't? No good jobs for them, poor things.

Drinking Beverage

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01-06-2017, 06:47 AM
RE: Political correctness?
Don't get mad at Vera, she's just being politically incorrect.

(Not a jab at you Vera, it's a jab at the anti-political correctness snowflakes who really just want their own form of political correctness).

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01-06-2017, 06:59 AM
RE: Political correctness?
(01-06-2017 06:45 AM)Vera Wrote:  First off, personal anecdotes mean squat, especially on the internet.
No argument there, which is why I included the link to the university website.

(01-06-2017 06:45 AM)Vera Wrote:  And is it okay to ask a woman if she intends to have children and not hire her because of this?
Of course not, and if any HR person under my supervision tried this she'd be fired immediately, with cause.

(01-06-2017 06:45 AM)Vera Wrote:  And if we're going be woe-is-me-ing,poor, mistreated, white men, let's go to the board of directors of ANY big company, see if it's "exclusively female". Wanna make a bet? Put your money where you mouth is? I mean, it's soooo hard for white, middle-aged men these days, isn't? No good jobs for them, poor things.

Drinking Beverage
You know why those boards of directors are almost exclusively male?

Because they've been putting in 60, 70, 80 hours a week for a decade or more. They're also more likely to die prematurely (heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc etc.) as a direct result of working so damn hard, and more likely to die of suicide if their career aspirations are stymied.

References: Why Are So Many Middle-Aged White Americans Dying?

Why white, older men are more likely to die of suicide

Women, generally, are smarter than that. They are more likely to realize that family life is much more important to a person's well-being than being on a board of directors.

I note that you didn't actually respond to my question: Is it acceptable to deny a person a job opportunity based exclusively on their gender and race?
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01-06-2017, 07:00 AM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2017 07:39 AM by Vera.)
RE: Political correctness?
No worries, Nemesis. I was recently "accused" of being politically correct, so I guess the two things just cancelled each other. I guess I should poof out of existence now or something Rolleyes


And yeah, it's not easy not having all of it be about you any more. I mean, women in the workforce, women as main characters in movies, what's next, a woman president? A woman astronaut! Why, I never!

[Image: article-1276822-098302C0000005DC-666_468x414.jpg]


Quote:Because they've been putting in 60, 70, 80 hours a week for a decade or more. They're also more likely to die prematurely (heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc etc.) as a direct result of working so damn hard, and more likely to die of suicide if their career aspirations are stymied.

Quote:Women, generally, are smarter than that. They are more likely to realize that family life is much more important to a person's well-being than being on a board of directors.


Jesus fucking Christ!


I said your personal anecdotes mean squat and if you think those programmes are AGAINST men and not an attempt to even the playing field... well, I feel sorry for you, really

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01-06-2017, 07:11 AM
RE: Political correctness?
(01-06-2017 07:00 AM)Vera Wrote:  Jesus fucking Christ!
No need to get excited. We're just having a conversation.
(01-06-2017 07:00 AM)Vera Wrote:  I said your personal anecdotes mean squat and if you think those programmes are AGAINST men and not an attempt to even the playing field... well, I feel sorry for you, really

That's why I included the references; to provide actual data, rather than anecdote.
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01-06-2017, 07:13 AM
RE: Political correctness?
That's not excitement. That a reaction when words fail me. Facepalm

And the fact that you seem completely unable to grasp the point behind equity problems means this conversation is completely POINTLESS.

Then again, I do remember you bitching how mean and crappy women are in the workplace and how hard it's been for you to work with them. Like I said - how dare they not be making sammiches!

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01-06-2017, 07:32 AM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2017 07:50 AM by Heath_Tierney.)
RE: Political correctness?
(01-06-2017 07:13 AM)Vera Wrote:  That's not excitement. That a reaction when words fail me. Facepalm

And the fact that you seem completely unable to grasp the point behind equity problems means this conversation is completely POINTLESS.

Then again, I do remember you bitching how mean and crappy women are in the workplace and how hard it's been for you to work with them. Like I said - how dare they not be making sammiches!

I think perhaps you misunderstand. If so, that's my fault because it's up to the communicator to ensure that the message is properly received.

Philosophically, I get "employment equity" programs. They are, as you mentioned, meant to correct historical wrongs and I have no problem with that. Never did.

That people should be hired or promoted based on their integrity, intelligence, experience and value is paramount. I think we can all agree upon that. It's when people are discounted specifically because of their gender, age and race regardless of their other attributes is when it becomes a problem.

Should a woman be excluded from a Board of Directors based on her gender? Of course not.

I'm retired now so it's no skin off my nose one way or another. And I would have much preferred Clinton to win the presidency over the disastrous Trump (though I'm not American and don't have a vote). Since you mentioned it, I've also supported women in the space program - had a nice meeting with Canadian astronaut Roberta Bondar once - and have worked with some highly-intelligent, driven, successful women.

I'm also thankful that my niece is in a male-dominated field in university - and that she earned her place there, based on her marks and her hard work.

We both want the same thing: we both want people to be offered the same opportunities, based on their character and intelligence, regardless of their gender, race, hair colour or shoe size. That is employment equity.
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01-06-2017, 07:51 AM
RE: Political correctness?
Heath
I suggest you sit down and have a frank conversation with your niece about being a woman in a male-dominated field.
I am certain she earned her place: in fact, I'll bet you she had to work twice as hard and still doesn't get the recognition she deserves. I know, 'cause I've been there. And sure, officially everyone is equal: it's in the very important unofficial ways that individuals suffer, day in and day out. That's where political correctness, or rather genuine respect, makes a difference.

Being picked last on a team. Every time.
Being told that you're really good at math. For a girl.
Hearing laughter and then silence when you walk in the room.
I could go on.
This is death by a thousand cuts: it wears down even the strongest over time.
And until you've experienced being in a minority situation, you really can't grasp what it means.

In many progressive societies, too many individuals perpetuate stereotypes, and people are FAR from treating everyone with the respect and dignity to which they are entitled.

When the playing field becomes level, then we can talk about how you as a white male are being persecuted because you weren't picked for a job for which you were as equally qualified as the other person who got picked.

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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