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Political philosophies (a discussion?)
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08-07-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 11:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 11:46 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Nope thats just here. Our politics are very different from the rest of the worlds.

Then what is meant by a right-wing approach to economy?

I'm going to try and not get to policy wonkish here as delving into the minutia would just end up with a huge wall-o-text and a tl;dr.

Basically a middle right approach in the rest of the world is one of Regulated Capitalism whereas the state try's to foster an environment of free competition and fair trade. Not Laissez-faire Capitalism that is the stated goal of the Republican Party. The simplest breakdown is the right prefers things to be settled in the market and by the consumer, not via a monopoly (either private or government run) while still allowing a new player to enter the market to challenge the established providers. Regulations and Taxes are not anathema but should be streamlined and not used as a club to keep innovation down.

Any questions?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-07-2013, 12:12 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 12:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 11:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then what is meant by a right-wing approach to economy?

I'm going to try and not get to policy wonkish here as delving into the minutia would just end up with a huge wall-o-text and a tl;dr.

Basically a middle right approach in the rest of the world is one of Regulated Capitalism whereas the state try's to foster an environment of free competition and fair trade. Not Laissez-faire Capitalism that is the stated goal of the Republican Party. The simplest breakdown is the right prefers things to be settled in the market and by the consumer, not via a monopoly (either private or government run) while still allowing a new player to enter the market to challenge the established providers. Regulations and Taxes are not anathema but should be streamlined and not used as a club to keep innovation down.

Any questions?

Transparency. More of a concern than a question but essentially, how much information are you allowed to have access to with any given company? Can I research their employee benefits and pay? Am I allowed to know their policies?

What I am getting at is, as I learn more and more about some companies I become more inclined to do business with them (like Aldi or CostCo) or less likely (Wal-Mart, Chick-Fil-A). Would this more "middle of the road" approach ensure I have access to more information about the company than just their product or service?

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08-07-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
I tend to look at the small vs large government part of it and lean more Conservative or Libertarian. Many times I'm just floating around in the middle someplace just trying to find someone or some topic that I agree with.

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08-07-2013, 12:15 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 12:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 12:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I'm going to try and not get to policy wonkish here as delving into the minutia would just end up with a huge wall-o-text and a tl;dr.

Basically a middle right approach in the rest of the world is one of Regulated Capitalism whereas the state try's to foster an environment of free competition and fair trade. Not Laissez-faire Capitalism that is the stated goal of the Republican Party. The simplest breakdown is the right prefers things to be settled in the market and by the consumer, not via a monopoly (either private or government run) while still allowing a new player to enter the market to challenge the established providers. Regulations and Taxes are not anathema but should be streamlined and not used as a club to keep innovation down.

Any questions?

Transparency. More of a concern than a question but essentially, how much information are you allowed to have access to with any given company? Can I research their employee benefits and pay? Am I allowed to know their policies?

What I am getting at is, as I learn more and more about some companies I become more inclined to do business with them (like Aldi or CostCo) or less likely (Wal-Mart, Chick-Fil-A). Would this more "middle of the road" approach ensure I have access to more information about the company than just their product or service?

Umm, I don't actually know since I am an american and was just giving an explanation based on a lot of political talks with people overseas. My guess is information is as available there as it is here via the Internet. That seems to be the mighty leveler as far as flow of information is concerned.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-07-2013, 12:18 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
Well, I can't say that I disagree with anything you originally said as far as regulation goes of business. Too bad that would never jive in the US.

(08-07-2013 12:15 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 12:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Transparency. More of a concern than a question but essentially, how much information are you allowed to have access to with any given company? Can I research their employee benefits and pay? Am I allowed to know their policies?

What I am getting at is, as I learn more and more about some companies I become more inclined to do business with them (like Aldi or CostCo) or less likely (Wal-Mart, Chick-Fil-A). Would this more "middle of the road" approach ensure I have access to more information about the company than just their product or service?

Umm, I don't actually know since I am an american and was just giving an explanation based on a lot of political talks with people overseas. My guess is information is as available there as it is here via the Internet. That seems to be the mighty leveler as far as flow of information is concerned.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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08-07-2013, 12:19 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 12:13 PM)smidgen Wrote:  I tend to look at the small vs large government part of it and lean more Conservative or Libertarian. Many times I'm just floating around in the middle someplace just trying to find someone or some topic that I agree with.

I think in an ideal world, this makes the most sense. But in practice, it is impractical to make the assumption that people will behave in nondiscriminatory ways.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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08-07-2013, 12:21 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 12:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 12:02 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What Rev said. My views (and by My I mean normal people who live outside of Crazyica.) may differ to 'Merica.

Typically, as I know it, right wing politically are more inclined to favor business, where as left wing are more inclined to favor the worker (and unions).

Right wing is more likely to free up the regulation and allow business more opportunity to operate and expand with the idea being that better business means better economy which means better conditions for everyone.
Left wing is more likely to raise minimum wage, put tougher restrictions on workers conditions etc.. with the idea that it improves the workers lives.

Then I tend to lean towards support of the workers. I understand businesses seeking to make profit (as that is what they are designed for) and that no amount of regulation should seek to eliminate profit, but profit should not come at the expense of its workers or its customers. The latter category can (as long as this is not a monopoly) select to or not to support the company, but the workers may have little or no say, especially in a bad economy or an unstable one.

Most people do.
This is why America is such an economic powerhouse though, because of it's unique political environment.

You see, when people in say England are feeling slanted by "the man" (business/government), they vote in a left wing party to increase their working conditions etc.. but at the expense of overall economic progress
Then when the left wing government fucks up the countries budget spending all it's money on handouts and tax cuts they vote in a right wing government to sort it out, and economic progress continues, at the expense of worker conditions.
And so the cycle continues and overall stays on that slower progressive equilibrium.

'Merica however is extremely religious... thus conservative. As such the issues are always social and because those that favor conservative social issues also tend to have right wing economic views it's always been a right wing in power. Even when it's the Democrats, it's still a ring wing compared to the rest of the world.
As such America has become this economic powerhouse with like 90% of the worlds Fortune 500 companies, but at the expense of the worker. BUT because the way the market works the economic success of businesses has flowed down throughout the people and so 'Merican's haven't complained. So your political spectrum is comparatively far more right wing then the rest of the world (what you would consider left wing we would consider right wing for example).

The issue then now entails that you are stupidly far right. BUT, 'Merica is still plagued by Crackernation and so progress towards shifting the spectrum to the left, while it is happening, it will remain slow.

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08-07-2013, 12:25 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2013 12:28 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 12:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 11:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then what is meant by a right-wing approach to economy?

I'm going to try and not get to policy wonkish here as delving into the minutia would just end up with a huge wall-o-text and a tl;dr.

Basically a middle right approach in the rest of the world is one of Regulated Capitalism whereas the state try's to foster an environment of free competition and fair trade. Not Laissez-faire Capitalism that is the stated goal of the Republican Party. The simplest breakdown is the right prefers things to be settled in the market and by the consumer, not via a monopoly (either private or government run) while still allowing a new player to enter the market to challenge the established providers. Regulations and Taxes are not anathema but should be streamlined and not used as a club to keep innovation down.

Any questions?

I have to disagree on the part about the right not favoring monopoly. These guys are the people who have trading AIs warring on the nanosecond scale to sink each other. Laissez-faire Capitalism is the framework on which to build a monopoly.

It would be great if the consumer wasn't so dumb, gullible, and irrational and if all of our short stacks where not made or lost on the movements of the billionaires.

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08-07-2013, 12:26 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
That seems like a pretty spot-on assessment.

(08-07-2013 12:21 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 12:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then I tend to lean towards support of the workers. I understand businesses seeking to make profit (as that is what they are designed for) and that no amount of regulation should seek to eliminate profit, but profit should not come at the expense of its workers or its customers. The latter category can (as long as this is not a monopoly) select to or not to support the company, but the workers may have little or no say, especially in a bad economy or an unstable one.

Most people do.
This is why America is such an economic powerhouse though, because of it's unique political environment.

You see, when people in say England are feeling slanted by "the man" (business/government), they vote in a left wing party to increase their working conditions etc.. but at the expense of overall economic progress
Then when the left wing government fucks up the countries budget spending all it's money on handouts and tax cuts they vote in a right wing government to sort it out, and economic progress continues, at the expense of worker conditions.
And so the cycle continues and overall stays on that slower progressive equilibrium.

'Merica however is extremely religious... thus conservative. As such the issues are always social and because those that favor conservative social issues also tend to have right wing economic views it's always been a right wing in power. Even when it's the Democrats, it's still a ring wing compared to the rest of the world.
As such America has become this economic powerhouse with like 90% of the worlds Fortune 500 companies, but at the expense of the worker. BUT because the way the market works the economic success of businesses has flowed down throughout the people and so 'Merican's haven't complained. So your political spectrum is comparatively far more right wing then the rest of the world (what you would consider left wing we would consider right wing for example).

The issue then now entails that you are stupidly far right. BUT, 'Merica is still plagued by Crackernation and so progress towards shifting the spectrum to the left, while it is happening, it will remain slow.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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08-07-2013, 12:32 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 12:21 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 12:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then I tend to lean towards support of the workers. I understand businesses seeking to make profit (as that is what they are designed for) and that no amount of regulation should seek to eliminate profit, but profit should not come at the expense of its workers or its customers. The latter category can (as long as this is not a monopoly) select to or not to support the company, but the workers may have little or no say, especially in a bad economy or an unstable one.

Most people do.
This is why America is such an economic powerhouse though, because of it's unique political environment.

You see, when people in say England are feeling slanted by "the man" (business/government), they vote in a left wing party to increase their working conditions etc.. but at the expense of overall economic progress
Then when the left wing government fucks up the countries budget spending all it's money on handouts and tax cuts they vote in a right wing government to sort it out, and economic progress continues, at the expense of worker conditions.
And so the cycle continues and overall stays on that slower progressive equilibrium.

'Merica however is extremely religious... thus conservative. As such the issues are always social and because those that favor conservative social issues also tend to have right wing economic views it's always been a right wing in power. Even when it's the Democrats, it's still a ring wing compared to the rest of the world.
As such America has become this economic powerhouse with like 90% of the worlds Fortune 500 companies, but at the expense of the worker. BUT because the way the market works the economic success of businesses has flowed down throughout the people and so 'Merican's haven't complained. So your political spectrum is comparatively far more right wing then the rest of the world (what you would consider left wing we would consider right wing for example).

The issue then now entails that you are stupidly far right. BUT, 'Merica is still plagued by Crackernation and so progress towards shifting the spectrum to the left, while it is happening, it will remain slow.

Agreed, and that would be well and good if those fortune 500 globals paid their taxes...or upheld some allegiance to the American people. It's all at the market level, anyone who doesn't have the cash to play that game is quite screwed. The headquarters might be here but the manufacturing is in China and the taxes are being paid to Ireland and the Caymans.

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