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Political philosophies (a discussion?)
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08-07-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 01:24 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:13 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If a third party were to be introduced, it would almost certainly be libertarian. Who would oppose any increase in government role in social or economic realms. All they would do then, would be to side with neither the Dems or the Repubs.

Okay I concede that this would likely be the case. I'm just saying a 3rd party could be a very good thing, but yes you're right it probably would be the libertarians and they have started to look a lot more like the republicans in recent years.

I think what you are trying to say is that
A) more opinions would be better
B) a better diversity and variety of opinions would be better
C) cooperation based off of what the populace actually wants would be better

All 3 of these necessarily mean that
1) the populace provides more opinions in a constructive way
2) these opinions should be given in a manner other than shouting them out
3) a better educated populace that gives and comments on opinions instead of just going with the flow

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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08-07-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 01:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:24 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Okay I concede that this would likely be the case. I'm just saying a 3rd party could be a very good thing, but yes you're right it probably would be the libertarians and they have started to look a lot more like the republicans in recent years.

I think what you are trying to say is that
A) more opinions would be better
B) a better diversity and variety of opinions would be better
C) cooperation based off of what the populace actually wants would be better

All 3 of these necessarily mean that
1) the populace provides more opinions in a constructive way
2) these opinions should be given in a manner other than shouting them out
3) a better educated populace that gives and comments on opinions instead of just going with the flow

Part of the problem is that the two political parties have more in common than they do in difference. They are both Megalithic Central Control based and when in power both act more or less the same (Republicans spend more when in power than Democrats do when you take their tax policy into account) an actual alternative would be nice but probably unrealistic.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-07-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 01:35 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I think what you are trying to say is that
A) more opinions would be better
B) a better diversity and variety of opinions would be better
C) cooperation based off of what the populace actually wants would be better

All 3 of these necessarily mean that
1) the populace provides more opinions in a constructive way
2) these opinions should be given in a manner other than shouting them out
3) a better educated populace that gives and comments on opinions instead of just going with the flow

Part of the problem is that the two political parties have more in common than they do in difference. They are both Megalithic Central Control based and when in power both act more or less the same (Republicans spend more when in power than Democrats do when you take their tax policy into account) an actual alternative would be nice but probably unrealistic.

Fair enough.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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08-07-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 01:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:24 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Okay I concede that this would likely be the case. I'm just saying a 3rd party could be a very good thing, but yes you're right it probably would be the libertarians and they have started to look a lot more like the republicans in recent years.

I think what you are trying to say is that
A) more opinions would be better
B) a better diversity and variety of opinions would be better
C) cooperation based off of what the populace actually wants would be better

All 3 of these necessarily mean that
1) the populace provides more opinions in a constructive way
2) these opinions should be given in a manner other than shouting them out
3) a better educated populace that gives and comments on opinions instead of just going with the flow

Correct, I think we need to tackle each issue individually in an a la cart sort of way rather than subscribing to broad platforms that create polarization, gridlock and in some cases remove choice all together (nobody is talking about prison reform or ending the drug war) I think strong alternative parties are a way to force these issue by issue discussions/decisions.

But yes all positive political reform at this point needs to come from a more informed and active populace and unfortunately most of my generation has already reached the point of apathy, news media selectively reports half truths and spends more time covering harmless and diversionary issues rather than the real meat and potatoes stuff and the baby boomers are busy rallying around the pundits and fighting their ideological war.

...also open primaries is another on my list of structural reforms as currently in order to win a primary one most pander to the most extreme ideological base.

This is all what I think needs to happen, but unfortunately I don't think it actually will...If I have learned anything about America it's that it has to get a lot worse before it gets better.

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08-07-2013, 01:45 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
The younger generations are leaning less towards the traditional news sources, and that is a good thing. The internet is going to continue to change the political landscape and in a way that will improve information that is out there to the populace. It's just a longer term trend than most of us would like.

(08-07-2013 01:43 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I think what you are trying to say is that
A) more opinions would be better
B) a better diversity and variety of opinions would be better
C) cooperation based off of what the populace actually wants would be better

All 3 of these necessarily mean that
1) the populace provides more opinions in a constructive way
2) these opinions should be given in a manner other than shouting them out
3) a better educated populace that gives and comments on opinions instead of just going with the flow

Correct, I think we need to tackle each issue individually in an a la cart sort of way rather than subscribing to broad platforms that create polarization, gridlock and in some cases remove choice all together (nobody is talking about prison reform or ending the drug war) I think strong alternative parties are a way to force these issue by issue discussions/decisions.

But yes all positive political reform at this point needs to come from a more informed and active populace and unfortunately most of my generation has already reached the point of apathy, news media selectively reports half truths and spends more time covering harmless and diversionary issues rather than the real meat and potatoes stuff and the baby boomers are busy rallying around the pundits and fighting their ideological war.

...also open primaries is another on my list of structural reforms as currently in order to win a primary one most pander to the most extreme ideological base.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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08-07-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 11:20 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Thus "tend"

I have yet to meet a true Marxist.

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08-07-2013, 01:53 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 01:50 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 11:20 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Thus "tend"

I have yet to meet a true Marxist.

Thats because Marx was not very good at engineering a working government. True Marxism is for all intents and purposes peaceful Anarchy. It is not really feasible in the real world.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-07-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 01:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The younger generations are leaning less towards the traditional news sources, and that is a good thing. The internet is going to continue to change the political landscape and in a way that will improve information that is out there to the populace. It's just a longer term trend than most of us would like.

(08-07-2013 01:43 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Correct, I think we need to tackle each issue individually in an a la cart sort of way rather than subscribing to broad platforms that create polarization, gridlock and in some cases remove choice all together (nobody is talking about prison reform or ending the drug war) I think strong alternative parties are a way to force these issue by issue discussions/decisions.

But yes all positive political reform at this point needs to come from a more informed and active populace and unfortunately most of my generation has already reached the point of apathy, news media selectively reports half truths and spends more time covering harmless and diversionary issues rather than the real meat and potatoes stuff and the baby boomers are busy rallying around the pundits and fighting their ideological war.

...also open primaries is another on my list of structural reforms as currently in order to win a primary one most pander to the most extreme ideological base.

Yeah the net is the last great hope for democracy and it needs to be protected at all costs.

...and I think of certain issues like the debt, the environment, education and healthcare the long curve will continue to grow ceaselessly. There are issues that can be addressed now with a slight mesure of inconvenience or later at a tremendous cost. The longer we wait the more painful the solution, the more painful the solution the longer we wait.

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08-07-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Political philosophies (a discussion?)
(08-07-2013 01:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:50 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I have yet to meet a true Marxist.

Thats because Marx was not very good at engineering a working government. True Marxism is for all intents and purposes peaceful Anarchy. It is not really feasible in the real world.

But yet Muffs keeps insisting that a good many liberals are Marxists... Drinking Beverage

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