Politics and Religion (again)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-09-2011, 02:14 PM
 
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
(22-09-2011 01:52 PM)17thknight Wrote:  
(22-09-2011 01:25 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  Oh Dear, I must have ruffled some feathers.

Disagreement is fine -- name calling? on this Forum?

Are you incapable of seeing that you are name-calling the religious?

I guess some clarification is in order.

I am a scientist and the biggest horror for any scientist is contradiction.

Quoting from the book I am writing on Physics:

“Integration is a process that constantly compares statements in the knowledge base for consistency and agreement. Whenever a contradiction is found, all hell breaks loose and every effort is made to resolve it. Contradiction in science is like poison in the human body – it has to be expelled for the body to survive. Even if all the experiments performed so far are in agreement with the theory, scientists must be prepared to discard or modify the theory at any future time, should a contradictory evidence surface in further research. ”

This is my biggest problem with the religious minds.

I agree, there are, and have been, genius caliber scientists who were deeply religious: Maxwell and Faraday come to mind.

I find it inconceivable that they could reconcile science with religion, unless they compartmentalized their brains, sealing off one from the other hermetically.

Maxwell actually said: “science is science and religion is religion”.

For me, personally, intellectual integrity is the most important property of a human mind. The opposite of it, what is often called hypocrisy (conscious or otherwise), is one of the worst. I despise it and do call it the proper names it deserves.

The list of mental handicaps I listed does not have to be all together in a religious human mind. It can be only one or two. I agree with you that there are many, many very nice religious people in the world. Even I met quite a few. My parents were and my brother, for his old age, has found god. I love them all.

However, we live in an age of intolerance and the knife is on the throats of us liberal intellectuals. As I said many times: the gloves are off and we have to call spades spades, for pure self defense.

I will continue doing that, without malice and hatred as you accused me of: I am a scientist, I have made an oath to uphold truth the way I sincerely and honestly see it.

If you, or anyone else, dislikes it, it is a free world, learn to live with it.
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Zatamon's post
22-09-2011, 02:20 PM
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
(22-09-2011 02:14 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  *Big Post*

A fair and reasonable response, but I think you are seeing more enemies towards reason than actually exist. We live in one of the most tolerant points in human history (I would argue the most tolerant, but it's debatable), and using words like "mental handicap" when dealing with someone religious will not only close them off to your arguments, it will harden their hearts and make them stand stronger with their religion than they did before. You become not a voice of reason but an enemy they must ward off.

If it's so easy for me to see malice in your words when you don't mean them to be, imagine the mind of someone who is religious?

[Image: 81564_gal-1.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-09-2011, 02:33 PM
 
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
(22-09-2011 02:20 PM)17thknight Wrote:  A fair and reasonable response, but I think you are seeing more enemies towards reason than actually exist.

We do disagree on this one, but it is another topic.

Still, I am pleased that I was able to clear up the misunderstanding. There is no reason why we can't be civil and ask questions before being nasty to each other.

This Forum is the cleanest I have seen so far and I really enjoy being here.

Smile
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Zatamon's post
23-09-2011, 10:32 AM
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
As far as I can see, you all agree that religion should have nothing to do with politics, don't you?

@ 17thknight: If someone would declare you evil or whatever (not just for fun, by hatred and ignorance), and this "someone" isn't anyone, you depend on his opinion (cause it influences the opinion of many other people), how would you react? Would you be tolerant? Would you say: "Yeah, you may find I'm evil, I don't care." ?
Or would you stand up for your beliefs and say: "You are intolerant, you have to accept my views like I accept yours. Your belief must not affect mine, you don't have the right to do so."

See the point? You can't tolerate every intolerance.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2011, 11:25 AM
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
(23-09-2011 10:32 AM)darksky Wrote:  @ 17thknight: If someone would declare you evil or whatever (not just for fun, by hatred and ignorance), and this "someone" isn't anyone, you depend on his opinion (cause it influences the opinion of many other people), how would you react? Would you be tolerant? Would you say: "Yeah, you may find I'm evil, I don't care." ?
Or would you stand up for your beliefs and say: "You are intolerant, you have to accept my views like I accept yours. Your belief must not affect mine, you don't have the right to do so."

See the point? You can't tolerate every intolerance.
I like your passion and your willingness to stand up for yourself, and I would most certainly defend myself, but not by being hostile. You can never win an argument, nor take the upper hand away from someone, by responding to them with hostility (at least in a verbal debate) even if they are hostile to you first. I would likely keep my cool, shrug, and ignore them. If I really felt the need to argue with them about it I would simply point out that I have as much a right to my beliefs as they do, per the Constitution, and that they are sinning by claiming to know the mind of God, who is the only person capable of judging whether or not someone is damned.

It helps to be highly familiar with scripture, particularly if you can quote it to someone's face over and over and over because I have discovered that 99% of people cannot.

[Image: 81564_gal-1.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2011, 01:10 PM
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
Group hug!


But religion is still politically divisive, destructive and extremely dangerous in power. All established state religions, without exception, have persecuted other religions, atheists, heretics and minority sects in their own denomination - sometimes to extinction, sometimes to exile, sometimes only underground.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2011, 01:14 PM
 
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
(23-09-2011 11:25 AM)17thknight Wrote:  I would most certainly defend myself, but not by being hostile. You can never win an argument, nor take the upper hand away from someone, by responding to them with hostility (at least in a verbal debate) even if they are hostile to you first. I would likely keep my cool, shrug, and ignore them.

Huh
Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2011, 02:24 PM
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
(23-09-2011 01:14 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  Huh

If someone's calling you evil, don't get in their face about it, because you won't win. This is obviously impossible advice, as everyone reacts emotionally when they are feeling emotional. You may as well ask people to behave like robots.

That being said, it's still a true statement. If someone is spitting mad at you and you get spitting mad back, you won't solve much.

[Image: 81564_gal-1.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2011, 02:28 PM
 
RE: Politics and Religion (again)
(23-09-2011 02:24 PM)17thknight Wrote:  If someone is spitting mad at you and you get spitting mad back, you won't solve much.

Thank you, 17th knight, I take it as a compliment!

Smile
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: