Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
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30-01-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
(29-01-2015 10:17 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "The American public and U.S. scientists are light-years apart on science issues. And 98 percent of surveyed scientists say it’s a problem that we don't know what they're talking about."

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2015/01...MsDQVrvj1o

Not surprising but certainly concerning, but hey lets keep reducing funding for the National Science Foundation, National Institute of Health, NASA...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...s/8056113/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/h...story.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy...itics.html

Our (US) priorities are so fucked up Facepalm

If America were a true democracy, our Capital would be Hollywood (CA, not FL).

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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30-01-2015, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2015 12:32 PM by cjlr.)
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
(30-01-2015 08:47 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(30-01-2015 08:17 AM)cjlr Wrote:  American universities are the finest scientific establishments on the planet.

That is because america is rich. You don't have to be inshape to have the best gym. Even if we had no scientist, america can afford it.

It is not substantially richer per capita than any of the other wealthiest OECD members.

Gym equipment doesn't burn calories. The people using it do.

(30-01-2015 08:47 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(30-01-2015 08:17 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Plus, it's not like public science funding has increased anywhere else in the OECD lately.

I have not found anything on growth in OECD, I will give you that...

First page of a google search.

Perusing the data one will find raw numbers for public-sector science and technology funding. It is fairly trivial to convert this to constant dollars and calculate what percentage of GDP it represents.

The result? Public science funding has declined in relative terms in nearly every OECD nation over the past decade. That includes the likes of Canada, Japan, France, or the UK just as much as America.

(30-01-2015 08:47 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  ... but this video shows america is shrinking in science:

Yes, but I didn't deny that. I certainly didn't say it wasn't a bad thing. I specifically denied that that was unique or exceptional in any way.

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30-01-2015, 12:30 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
(30-01-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(30-01-2015 08:17 AM)cjlr Wrote:  American universities are the finest scientific establishments on the planet.

Plus, it's not like public science funding has increased anywhere else in the OECD lately.

The general public vs university educated graduates with science degrees

The ratio has to be minuscule.

As it is anywhere on the planet. So what?

(30-01-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  The problem cjlr is that those who are scientifically literate aren't the ones running the country, in many ways it's just the opposite.

I am not saying that is not a problem. I am saying that that is not a uniquely American problem.

The Harper government here in Canada has obliterated irreplaceable Arctic environmental research, among other prominent "achievements". Can you guess why?

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30-01-2015, 12:35 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
This could be part of the problem. What is really troubling about htis is that Rush Limbaugh is on here several times with children's books. Blink This is from the bestsellers according to Amazon of 2014 (the science books are way low on the list.)

9) Jesus Calling: Enjoying Peace in His Presence Hardcover – October 12, 2004
by Sarah Young (Author)

25) Rush Revere and the First Patriots by Rush Limbaugh

26) The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts by Gary D Chapman

59) Rush Revere and the Brave Pilgrims by Rush Limbaugh

60) The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are by Brene Brown

62) Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back by Todd Burpo and Lynn Vincent

64) Rush Revere and the American Revolution by Rush Limbaugh , Kathryn Adams Limbaugh

71) The Jesus Storybook Bible: Every Story Whispers His Name by Sally Lloyd-Jones

77) Soul Healing Miracles: Ancient and New Sacred Wisdom, Knowledge, and Practical Techniques for Healing the Spiritual, Mental, Emotional, and Physical Bodies by Zhi Gang Sha

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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30-01-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
The people are generally not the most enlightened, specially when it comes to science. This is not only a problem in the US, it happens everywhere around the world

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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30-01-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
The general public is too illiterate and uneducated on most all subjects, then they get manipulated to vote for people based on emotion instead of logic. It is a recipe for disaster.

The most concerning part about a scientifically illiterate public is that it elects an illiterate government that then puts people like Ted Cruz overseeing NASA and makes it harder for scientists to inform public policy with their pesky facts.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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30-01-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
(30-01-2015 12:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It is not substantially richer per capita than any of the other wealthiest OECD members.

Gym equipment doesn't burn calories. The people using it do.

That is the thing. I ain't saying america has bad university, I am saying money is the only reason they are still that way. Which goes back to my analogy. I said that as saying that just because america does have it, that doesn't mean it is any good at science. I am going to be fair and not include people born in america only, as if that were the case america would do science like south america.



(30-01-2015 12:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  First page of a google search.

Perusing the data one will find raw numbers for public-sector science and technology funding. It is fairly trivial to convert this to constant dollars and calculate what percentage of GDP it represents.

The result? Public science funding has declined in relative terms in nearly every OECD nation over the past decade. That includes the likes of Canada, Japan, France, or the UK just as much as America.

Yeah the difference? Those nations of japan, france, and the UK will try to make it better. America, fuck nah, not enough jesus.


(30-01-2015 12:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Yes, but I didn't deny that. I certainly didn't say it wasn't a bad thing. I specifically denied that that was unique or exceptional in any way.

Well yes it is no unique, but america is the dumbest of all of them(first world wise). 40% of america is creationist, that is for percent that are scientifically illiterate. That is not to include other people into the mix, including other atheist. Take me, I am 18 and know alot about zoology, in america that is unique. In countries like japan in china, I ain't special, fucking shit they probably know as much in biology as I do. Knowing that is common there, in the U.S. people don't even know what the Mesozoic era is, not even the people who love dinosaurs.

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30-01-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
(30-01-2015 12:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(30-01-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  The general public vs university educated graduates with science degrees

The ratio has to be minuscule.

As it is anywhere on the planet. So what?

(30-01-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  The problem cjlr is that those who are scientifically literate aren't the ones running the country, in many ways it's just the opposite.

I am not saying that is not a problem. I am saying that that is not a uniquely American problem.

The Harper government here in Canada has obliterated irreplaceable Arctic environmental research, among other prominent "achievements". Can you guess why?

I didn't say it was a uniquely American problem, I said it was an American problem.

As for the "so what", I could have said the same thing when you mentioned the US universities. Having top universities and scientifically literate ruling bodies don't go hand in hand, that's what my friend.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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30-01-2015, 03:55 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
This reminds me so much of today's edition of "Science Friday" on NPR.

http://sciencefriday.com/segment/01/30/2...ssues.html
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06-03-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: Poll shows giant gap between what public, scientists think
So what do we do about it? Our so called educational system seems to be a lost cause.

I am working on the wifi at a high school now. Most of the teachers I have asked had never heard of Project Gutenberg. The one that claimed to know about it said she had not suggested it to her students.

For me, science fiction made science more interesting than the science teachers I finally got in high school. but how can worthwhile SF be written without using SCIENCE WORDS, like 'orbit', 'electron' and 'gravity'. So I wrote a computer program that counted and computed the density of science and fantasy words in any text fed into it.

Arthur C. Clarke's A Fall of Moondust has an SF word density of 1.024. 1.00 means 1 science word for every 1,000 characters including spaces and punctuation. The book is less than 500K. But the Harry Potter series is more than SIX MEGABYTES. Clarke uses more science words in 1/12th the space than JK Rowling. Moondust has 5 times the density of Philip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle that beat it for the Hugo.

So we need to suggest what kids should read in grade school.

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