Ponder me this TTA science geeks
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07-11-2012, 08:09 PM
RE: Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(07-11-2012 07:53 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Who's talking about fractions? We're talking about multiple universes, and how the number of possible universes is infinitely larger than the number of possible universes with inter-universal travel, even though both numbers are infinite.
I see what you mean by infinite sizes, but it doesn't fit.
You can't have a fraction of a universe because it's just a whole universe that's just a different size.
If you have multiple of the same universe then you're just adding to the tally.

@Chas, I only got about half of what you're saying, how does exponents relate to this?

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07-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(07-11-2012 07:54 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fuck the math, k? You're not communicating anything with it. And like Muffs said, the theory is fucking stupid.

So is your face, but that's not really saying much. Tongue

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07-11-2012, 08:33 PM
RE: Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(07-11-2012 08:09 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(07-11-2012 07:53 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Who's talking about fractions? We're talking about multiple universes, and how the number of possible universes is infinitely larger than the number of possible universes with inter-universal travel, even though both numbers are infinite.
I see what you mean by infinite sizes, but it doesn't fit.
You can't have a fraction of a universe because it's just a whole universe that's just a different size.
If you have multiple of the same universe then you're just adding to the tally.

@Chas, I only got about half of what you're saying, how does exponents relate to this?
A power set is the set of subsets of a set. So let's say we have a set S={1,2,3}. The cardinality of that set is 3, that is the size, the count, the number of elements.
P(S), the power set of S, is the set {{}, {1}, {2}, {3}, {1,2}, {1,3}, {2,3}, {1,2,3}}. It is the set of sets which are subsets of S. Its cardinality is 8 (2^3), that is it has 8 elements, all of which are sets.

About infinity, there are two infinities that relate to our experience. Most people think they are the same, but one is larger than the other. The first one is an infinite number of things, the second and larger is an infinite extent. The first is the cardinality of the natural numbers {1,2,3,...}, the second is the cardinality of the continuum, of space, of the real numbers. The first is aleph nought, the second is aleph one.

Not sure what you're asking about exponents.

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07-11-2012, 08:42 PM
Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(07-11-2012 07:08 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:But otherwise you're right on. I mean, really. Why should I believe
Brian Greene or Neil Degrasse Tyson or Michio Kaku or Lawrence Krause
when you've already gotten it all figured out.

And so we should suck up everything they say like they shit rainbows?
That makes us better then theists how?


You can't riggle out of it by saying "it's not this one" because we're talking about infinite here.
Logically speaking whatever happens to one happens to us because there's a multiverse doing the same but to another multiverse etc..
So say there is multiverse 1-10
1,2,3,4,5 are all doing their thing. 6 comes along and decides to kill all humans in 1. 7 then decides to do the same to 2 etc...

To say that it happened else where means it didn't happen here which means there's not an "infinite" number.
Because if there is infinite possibilities then no rock is left unturned and not killing us 5seconds from now would be leaving a rock unturned.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I just saying logically speaking "infinite" is impossible, doesn't mean the number's not just really big.

Have you gone back to read this yet because I have and it still doesn't make any sense.

And it's not slurping down rainbow shit if I'm more apt to lean toward wondering if a cosmologist working with physics might have a better understand of the universe and/or multiverse than some dude who rides a moped and snarls at all the old ladies he can't pass.

That, and last night your mom sent me to a completely different dimension when she did that thing with her third knuckle and and a mango.

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07-11-2012, 10:11 PM
RE: Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(07-11-2012 05:10 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  If there is infinite amount of parallel universes doesn't that mean that there is a parallel universe where someone (alien or human or something else) finds a way to travel between these parallel and hence come to our parallel universe and kill us all 5seconds from now?

So because this hasn't happened does that make it safe to assume that there is not infinite number of parallel universes with infinite possibilities?
1 - we don't know if there is even a parallel universe in the first place. We haven't confirmed it.
2 - if we don't know the first, we can't know the second at least not yet, as it would be speculation at best
3 - if it were possible, and if such a thing could be breached, sure, maybe they could. But we still don't know if the first exists, if it did if it would be finite or infinite.

We'd have to assume also that due to an infinite amount of universes, that physics would be the same in all of them, life would be similar, and that travel would be the same. In an "infinite" number, lets say even tossing a number out in the "billions" what are the odds that the physics, limitations and everything would be the same as ours?

What if it wasn't but life existed? Would physics not be different? Travel? Limitations of travel?


Let's assume by chance one is the SAME as ours, and there is intelligent life, and they were in the same place we were, or even more advanced... they'd have to find a way to travel to some other universe knowing exactly where in the galaxy we were as well as having the capability of traveling that far and knowing which solar system had life and have a reason or justification to do so, wouldn't they?

Just thinking "out of the box" here...

But at the end of the day, it's still a lot of assumptions. Sort of like the party time travel thing.

Test
"If i could have a party and was capable of time travel in the future, I would purposely travel back in time to this part."

Result
"I'm not partying with myself, therefore time travel is not possible."

Maybe it is, but not in the way we think of it. Or the way we consider it. Or at all. Or only to other universes (assuming they even exist).

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08-11-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: Ponder me this TTA science geeks
Multiverse is a theory like I am not pasty white.

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08-11-2012, 04:34 PM
RE: Ponder me this TTA science geeks
I'm immediately wary of anything that claims to be "infinite".

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08-11-2012, 04:41 PM
Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(08-11-2012 04:34 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I'm immediately wary of anything that claims to be "infinite".

I'm immediately wary of anyone who is immediately wary of stuff.

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08-11-2012, 05:13 PM
RE: Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(08-11-2012 04:41 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(08-11-2012 04:34 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I'm immediately wary of anything that claims to be "infinite".

I'm immediately wary of anyone who is immediately wary of stuff.
I'm immediately wary of anyone who's immediately wary of people who are immediately wary of stuff. It shows an opposition to healthy skepticism. Big Grin

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08-11-2012, 05:32 PM
RE: Ponder me this TTA science geeks
(07-11-2012 05:17 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(07-11-2012 05:10 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  If there is infinite amount of parallel universes doesn't that mean that there is a parallel universe where someone (alien or human or something else) finds a way to travel between these parallel and hence come to our parallel universe and kill us all 5seconds from now?

So because this hasn't happened does that make it safe to assume that there is not infinite number of parallel universes with infinite possibilities?
Muffs, I would like to pose you a counter question.

If an infinite number of parallel universes with infinite possibilities exists, does that mean it is safe to assume that there is a parallel universe, in which the possibility that there are no other parallel universes is a reality?
That doesn't make any sense...
You just said if universes > 1, then universe = 1.
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