Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
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15-12-2016, 08:08 AM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2016 09:31 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
Think I broke the bot everyone. My bad, always been too rough with my toys. Tongue

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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15-12-2016, 11:09 AM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2016 01:20 PM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(15-12-2016 08:08 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Think I broke the bot everyone. My bad, always been too rough with my toys. Tongue

Well I had a very long post written up but the internet erred and now the probably 500-1000 words are now summed up into one undefined erred.

So I'll summarize.

The government can go fuck itself.

And if you really wanted to get people away from the Catholic Church you must first understand that the Catholic ideology practically revolves around the Sacrament of the Eucharist and the forgiveness of sins. Both of which only an ordained priest can oversee. This makes the class of priests have a very powerful role in the faith.

Your best bet would be getting Catholics to go over to the Episcopal church, which allows clergy to marry and also allows women to be priests or bishops. Its not a large of a leap as saying 'leave your faith entirely' and the Episcopal church is virtually the same except that it doesn't really recognize the Pope's authority. So there.

The question you should be asking is not why Catholics continue to follow the Church but rather it should be why the world governments tolerate this obstruction of justice.
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15-12-2016, 12:28 PM
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(13-12-2016 05:41 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You must be new here.

Funny coming from the guy who just picked a fight with WD. You are out of your league, dude.

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The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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15-12-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(15-12-2016 12:28 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(13-12-2016 05:41 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You must be new here.

Funny coming from the guy who just picked a fight with WD. You are out of your league, dude.

Oh yes I feel so defeated by the verbal onslaught of being called an idiotic cunt.
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15-12-2016, 07:53 PM
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Well I had a very long post written up but the internet erred and now the probably 500-1000 words are now summed up into one undefined erred.
It's a strange day when the internet saves me from wasting my time on pointless stupid bullshit.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  So I'll summarize.

The government can go fuck itself.
Thanks for that pointless non-sequitur devoid of any context or elaboration, it was super helpful. For shit sake, the point of a summary is a brief account of your main points but you don't seem to have a point. Again.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  And if you really wanted to get people away from the Catholic Church you must first understand that the Catholic ideology practically revolves around the Sacrament of the Eucharist and the forgiveness of sins. Both of which only an ordained priest can oversee. This makes the class of priests have a very powerful role in the faith.
Utter nonsense. There are millions of Catholics around the world who don't attend mass at all or fund the church who are still Catholics. There is no minimum required attendance required to be Catholic. All that is required to be considered a Catholic is a baptism. Even excommunication doesn't stop you being a Catholic.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Your best bet would be getting Catholics to go over to the Episcopal church, which allows clergy to marry and also allows women to be priests or bishops.
Best bet for what? Stopping the rape of children? If that's what you mean than no it's bloody not as marriage doesn't magically cure people of their sexual attraction to children. Priests who are willing and able to molest children will do so if they are married or not and to think otherwise is nieve as shit.
The best bet to get the Church to accept responsibility? To allow prosecution of offenders? To stop sheltering them? Your "best bet" doesn't fuckin' solve a single problem ACTUALLY related to the debate we are having.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Its not a large of a leap as saying 'leave your faith entirely'...
Except I never said that they should.
Quote:"The fact they are both Christians is irrelevant. I'm talking about voluntary participation and funding of an organization (the church) who has a known, documented, and ongoing involvement in the protection and aiding of child rapists. The religious beliefs are entirely not the point. I don't care if it's the Catholic Church or the fucking Chuck-E-Cheese on the corner of 5th and Main, if you know they are involved in sheltering and enabling their staff to rape children and you continue to fund them and support them then all your posturing about how you abhor pedophilia is fucking worthless."
They need to stop supporting the Church not the Catholic faith (though that would be nice) and I've made this clear several goddamn times now. Seriously, reading comprehension, it's super useful.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  and the Episcopal church is virtually the same except that it doesn't really recognize the Pope's authority. So there.
And that helps how exactly when the rapes are committed by regular priests and covered up by members of the Church who aren't the Pope? Do you think the Pope used his authority to order priests to rape children? Are you under the impression that child molestation and the subsequent cover-ups are all the fault of the Pope's authority, and would just vanish if it was revoked? Cover-ups were at every level, from individual priests and nuns to Bishops, Archbishops, and individual Diocese. The fact that Pope has authority wasn't the fucking issue.
The issue is systemic and emblematic of the way the Church has always conducted its business. You don't seem to understand the problem or anything I'm saying for that matter.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  The question you should be asking is not why Catholics continue to follow the Church but rather it should be why the world governments tolerate this obstruction of justice.
No, it's fucking not you twat. Yes, the governments of the world have to answer for their refusal to prosecute child rapists over the objections of the Church. However that, a-fucking-gain, in NO WAY absolves the members of the Church who knowingly and willingly support and fund an organization that continues to shield people who rape children from prosecution and helps them commit new rapes.
The fact that the government dropped the ball doesn't change the fact they are willingly funding the largest child rapist protection organization in the world.

For fuck sake, if members of the Salvation Army were caught raping children, covering up those rapes, protecting the rapists, and then moving them to new communities enabling them to keep raping children would you recommend people continue to support and fund the Salvation Army? Would you consider people who continued to support the Salvation Army when they KNOW these actions are ongoing, and effectively policy, morally free and clear?

This is not fuckin' rocket science boy.

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15-12-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(15-12-2016 12:57 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 12:28 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Funny coming from the guy who just picked a fight with WD. You are out of your league, dude.

Oh yes I feel so defeated by the verbal onslaught of being called an idiotic cunt.
Hate to break it to you but he ain't sayin' you're outta your league cause I'm calling you an idiotic cunt. It's because I'm repeatedly demonstrating that you ARE and idiotic cunt.

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15-12-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  The question you should be asking is not why Catholics continue to follow the Church
Just wanted to add that at no point did I even asking why they do so. I know why they do, it's not some mystery.

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15-12-2016, 10:42 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2016 07:37 AM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(15-12-2016 07:53 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Well I had a very long post written up but the internet erred and now the probably 500-1000 words are now summed up into one undefined erred.
It's a strange day when the internet saves me from wasting my time on pointless stupid bullshit.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  So I'll summarize.

The government can go fuck itself.
Thanks for that pointless non-sequitur devoid of any context or elaboration, it was super helpful. For shit sake, the point of a summary is a brief account of your main points but you don't seem to have a point. Again.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  And if you really wanted to get people away from the Catholic Church you must first understand that the Catholic ideology practically revolves around the Sacrament of the Eucharist and the forgiveness of sins. Both of which only an ordained priest can oversee. This makes the class of priests have a very powerful role in the faith.
Utter nonsense. There are millions of Catholics around the world who don't attend mass at all or fund the church who are still Catholics. There is no minimum required attendance required to be Catholic. All that is required to be considered a Catholic is a baptism. Even excommunication doesn't stop you being a Catholic.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Your best bet would be getting Catholics to go over to the Episcopal church, which allows clergy to marry and also allows women to be priests or bishops.
Best bet for what? Stopping the rape of children? If that's what you mean than no it's bloody not as marriage doesn't magically cure people of their sexual attraction to children. Priests who are willing and able to molest children will do so if they are married or not and to think otherwise is nieve as shit.
The best bet to get the Church to accept responsibility? To allow prosecution of offenders? To stop sheltering them? Your "best bet" doesn't fuckin' solve a single problem ACTUALLY related to the debate we are having.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Its not a large of a leap as saying 'leave your faith entirely'...
Except I never said that they should.
Quote:"The fact they are both Christians is irrelevant. I'm talking about voluntary participation and funding of an organization (the church) who has a known, documented, and ongoing involvement in the protection and aiding of child rapists. The religious beliefs are entirely not the point. I don't care if it's the Catholic Church or the fucking Chuck-E-Cheese on the corner of 5th and Main, if you know they are involved in sheltering and enabling their staff to rape children and you continue to fund them and support them then all your posturing about how you abhor pedophilia is fucking worthless."
They need to stop supporting the Church not the Catholic faith (though that would be nice) and I've made this clear several goddamn times now. Seriously, reading comprehension, it's super useful.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  and the Episcopal church is virtually the same except that it doesn't really recognize the Pope's authority. So there.
And that helps how exactly when the rapes are committed by regular priests and covered up by members of the Church who aren't the Pope? Do you think the Pope used his authority to order priests to rape children? Are you under the impression that child molestation and the subsequent cover-ups are all the fault of the Pope's authority, and would just vanish if it was revoked? Cover-ups were at every level, from individual priests and nuns to Bishops, Archbishops, and individual Diocese. The fact that Pope has authority wasn't the fucking issue.
The issue is systemic and emblematic of the way the Church has always conducted its business. You don't seem to understand the problem or anything I'm saying for that matter.

(15-12-2016 11:09 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  The question you should be asking is not why Catholics continue to follow the Church but rather it should be why the world governments tolerate this obstruction of justice.

No, it's fucking not you twat. Yes, the governments of the world have to answer for their refusal to prosecute child rapists over the objections of the Church. However that, a-fucking-gain, in NO WAY absolves the members of the Church who knowingly and willingly support and fund an organization that continues to shield people who rape children from prosecution and helps them commit new rapes.
The fact that the government dropped the ball doesn't change the fact they are willingly funding the largest child rapist protection organization in the world.

For fuck sake, if members of the Salvation Army were caught raping children, covering up those rapes, protecting the rapists, and then moving them to new communities enabling them to keep raping children would you recommend people continue to support and fund the Salvation Army? Would you consider people who continued to support the Salvation Army when they KNOW these actions are ongoing, and effectively policy, morally free and clear?

This is not fuckin' rocket science boy.

To be a Catholic one must recognize the authority of the Pope (or Antipope). This has been a matter of contention throughout history, which I covered in my original undefined post that was a beautiful response of epic magnitudes.

To summarize, people who didn't want to recognize the authority of the Pope broke from Catholicism and became their own separate branches. This is where we get Anglicanism (Episcopal) and Protestantism.

You don't seem to understand that very vital point. The Muslims had Caliphs who were the 'spiritual successors' of their Prophet. In the same venue the Pope is the 'spiritual successor' of Peter supposedly one of the twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ.

Now this may seem all very confusing to someone who wasn't raised a Roman Catholic or someone who may not understand the Roman Catholic faith. Basically you can't BE a Catholic if you don't support the Church because the Church IS the Faith. Which this is of course EXTREMELY confusing when you take into account early Christianity and you come to realize that there were many 'pope-like' figures. The main articles of the Pope's authority comes from the fact that as the Bishop of Rome he is effectively administrating the Apostolic See of Saint Peter.

However Rome was not the only Apostolic See, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and I believe Constantinople, though i'm not exactly sure how they wove that one in among them.

Now, this view on papal authority starts here and it is what caused the Great Schism in the Church and where Eastern Orthodox Christianity comes from.


Quote:And that helps how exactly when the rapes are committed by regular priests and covered up by members of the Church who aren't the Pope? Do you think the Pope used his authority to order priests to rape children? Are you under the impression that child molestation and the subsequent cover-ups are all the fault of the Pope's authority, and would just vanish if it was revoked? Cover-ups were at every level, from individual priests and nuns to Bishops, Archbishops, and individual Diocese. The fact that Pope has authority wasn't the fucking issue.
The issue is systemic and emblematic of the way the Church has always conducted its business. You don't seem to understand the problem or anything I'm saying for that matter.

No, it's fucking not you twat. Yes, the governments of the world have to answer for their refusal to prosecute child rapists over the objections of the Church. However that, a-fucking-gain, in NO WAY absolves the members of the Church who knowingly and willingly support and fund an organization that continues to shield people who rape children from prosecution and helps them commit new rapes.
The fact that the government dropped the ball doesn't change the fact they are willingly funding the largest child rapist protection organization in the world.

For fuck sake, if members of the Salvation Army were caught raping children, covering up those rapes, protecting the rapists, and then moving them to new communities enabling them to keep raping children would you recommend people continue to support and fund the Salvation Army? Would you consider people who continued to support the Salvation Army when they KNOW these actions are ongoing, and effectively policy, morally free and clear?

This is not fuckin' rocket science boy.
Who do you think conducts the business of the Church? It is only with a decree that anything this big could be covered up for so long. I'm not saying that the sexual abuse of children is the fault of the pope (actually it is since he would be doing nothing stop it). I am saying that the 'systematic' cover ups are. I'm honestly surprised you even believe any of this talk about pedophilia in the Catholic Church. I mean it could all just be coincidences that these priests were moved about and they just so happened that many of them were Pedophiles. I meaning believing that it was deliberate without any hard core evidence would... make you a conspiracy theorist.

Moving on from my wisecrack.

In my original post that ended up as undefined I had touched up a bit more on the subject of government than simply saying it could go fuck itself. To quite the extent actually.

You made mention of how the Catholic Church was a voluntary organization, and that the Government is compulsory. The government is not compulsory, maybe to you it is, but not to me. I am a free man, I am free to do whatever I want, whether what I want is good or bad, morally upright or outright abhorrent. I am a free man, and no man nor woman can claim to have lordship over me and decide for me what 'rights' I do, and do not have.

I pay taxes, not because I support the criminal syndicate that is my government, but because I like the basic necessities that my government provides, roads, education (albeit flawed), and if I lived in Europe. Universal Health Care and Higher Education, then there's also the courts for legal recourse. I like these things, I do not like the fact that to me personally at least that the government terrorizes its own citizen class or bully them into submission, sometimes even quietly silencing them if they become to vocal. I do not like these things, but not paying taxes by myself wouldn't change it, and if everyone stopped paying taxes the basic necessities would stop being provided, including the food stamps that people in desperate financial straits need to survive.

A long time ago, long before both of our times, being Catholic wasn't so voluntary. I mentioned the Protestant Reformation earlier, and the Great Schism, but I haven't mentioned the Cathars.

Because the Pope had no control over the Eastern Orthodox Church there was little that he could do about that. But for the Cathars and the Protestants who grew on his home turf. No mercy was spared. There was tremendous amounts of bloodshed and the loss of life, especially regarding the Protestant Reformation.

And the Protestants fought for what they believed was right, and they fought and died for a reason a lot less noble than what you and I have to fight and die for in regards to lordship by corrupt administration, or maybe its virtually the same on a fundamental level. It wasn't always voluntary, and people had to give up their lives just so you and I can sit here today speaking about the the atrocities covered up by the Catholic Church.

I am a free man, and my cooperation with the government is voluntary until I can find something suitable replace it. But make no mistake, if I have to die for what I believe in, I will die for them because dying for my beliefs means dying for you and everyone that comes after me. If dying is what it takes to provide a better world for the future descendants of all of humanity, then I will merrily drink from that cup of death until death does me in, if only so that others can withhold from drinking its bitter contents until the end of their natural lives.

You can take that compulsory victimist attitude and shove it up your ass. Our ancestors would be so ashamed of your cowardice and mine to, but I hope to one day make up for being a coward.

It is a dark day indeed when the forces of evil can openly operate upon this earth, and the good must bide their time in the darkness to formulate a plan to act against this rampant evil. But there are so few lights, scattered across the night, so lonely and scared. If only I could reach them. But its hard navigating in the darkness, I trip and I fall, but I see their light and I stumble continuously trying to find my way towards them.

And that is where I have failed, that is my flaw. It is because I seek out the light of others, instead of building a lighthouse in the night, for which shines for others that which they might rally around. But how terrible it is to be that beacon, for what the candles in the night can see, the evil sees as well, and hiding in the veil of shadows they descend upon all the lighthouses that others have built and have done so in the past. So I must make sure that my lighthouse can withstand their assault, until enough candles have rallied that we might build a fortress of light to shelter all.

I don't mind dying, but I do not want to die in vain.
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19-12-2016, 09:03 PM
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
[Image: cad.gif]
(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  To be a Catholic one must recognize the authority of the Pope (or Antipope).
No, one becomes a Catholic the moment they are baptized. You can disagree with everything the Pope says, you can ignore every last decree or utterance he makes, you can try to shoot his ass, you can never step foot inside a church again, you can even be excommunicated from the Church but if you have been Baptized as a Catholic the Church considers you Catholic.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You don't seem to understand that very vital point.
There is no vital point because you are deliberately confusing "Catholics who don't attend mass or donate to the Church" (which is what I'm fucking talking about) with "members of entirely different denominations".
You are reaching so far up your own ass to find any excuse you can to absolve people of responsibility when they knowingly donate to an organization that aids and protects child rapists even if that means building strawman arguments or obfuscating my points.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Now this may seem all very confusing to someone who wasn't raised a Roman Catholic or someone who may not understand the Roman Catholic faith.
I grew up in the South of Ireland, I was surrounded by the Church most of my youth, which is why I can tell that you don't know what you are talking about. You can't see the damn forest for the trees.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Basically you can't BE a Catholic if you don't support the Church because the Church IS the Faith.
I'm perfectly familiar with the Fides Ecclesiae, but you are still wrong. If you have been baptized you are a Catholic as far as the church is considered. People who do not attend mass and do not give money to the Church remain Catholic so long as they are baptized.

You are making the idiotic argument that if you don't go to Church regularly or give them money than you can't be considered Catholic and the Church itself does not agree with you.


(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Which this is of course EXTREMELY confusing..
Only to you it seems.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Who do you think conducts the business of the Church?
More than one guy you dumbass.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  It is only with a decree that anything this big could be covered up for so long.
Prove it. Or wait don't bother because you are fucking demonstrably wrong. Prior to 2001 sexual abuse by priests was handled by the local dioceses. They were not even required to be reported to Rome AT ALL. The cover-ups went on for decades, most of them at the local level including priests, nuns, and bishops and mostly contained to the diocese they happened in, though the Vatican had some knowledge some of the time.

This means that the people doing the cover up were exactly who I said they were. Hell in Canada the local church, government, and police conspired to cover up allegations. I wasn't aware that the fucking Newfoundland police get their orders from the Pope.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'm not saying that the sexual abuse of children is the fault of the pope (actually it is since he would be doing nothing stop it).
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, but the people knowingly funding the sheltering and aiding of child molesters when they don't have to.... those people are blameless. Uh-huh. Rolleyes

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I am saying that the 'systematic' cover ups are.
Except that, prior to at least 2001, they were absolutely not. That the Vatican continued to actively shuffle them around and shield them from prosecution IS the Popes fault, however, the vast majority of cover-ups prior to that date were handled locally and weren't even required to be reported to Rome.

You do not know what you are talking about.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'm honestly surprised you even believe any of this talk about pedophilia in the Catholic Church. I mean it could all just be coincidences that these priests were moved about and they just so happened that many of them were Pedophiles. I meaning believing that it was deliberate without any hard core evidence would... make you a conspiracy theorist.

You mean like this example?
Or this one?

That good enough to shut your stupid mouth or would you like more examples? There are a lot more. Let me be perfectly clear: the fact that you speak without knowing what the fuck you are talking about doesn't mean everyone else does the same.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You made mention of how the Catholic Church was a voluntary organization, and that the Government is compulsory.... I pay taxes, not because I support the criminal syndicate that is my government, but because I like the basic necessities that my government provides.....
[Image: MuktU.gif]
This is the perfect example of why you are an idiotic cunt. The definition of compulsory is fucking literally "required by law". You are required by law to pay taxes to the government at the local, state/provincial, and federal level or a combination thereof.

You liking what your taxes pay for is fucking irrelevant to whether you are required by law to pay them or not and you bloody are. Making it compulsory by goddamn definition.

Giving money to the Church is entirely voluntary, they will not hunt you down and imprison you if you don't drop some money in the collection basket. YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW to pay taxes to the government, taxation is compulsory, and if you fail to do so they will force you to. How fucking ignorant of government are you that you don't even understand that? If you think it is not than feel free to look up what happens to people who decide they don't want to pay taxes anymore. Better yet stop paying taxes and in 5 years, when you finally get access to the internet in your cell, you can come and tell us all how your sentence for tax evasion is voluntary. Tax evasion. Which is a crime you fucking idiot.


Your comparison is STILL shit and still fallacious, and if you keep using it to dig your ditch deeper you will find magma long before you find a point where it's not a fucking stupid comparison.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  A long time ago, long before both of our times, being Catholic wasn't so voluntary.
Is that time......now? No? Well thanks for that pointless and irrelevant fucking historical observation.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  But make no mistake, if I have to die for what I believe in, I will die for them because....
I physically could not care less and this has utterly nothing to do with a single fucking point I have raised.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You can take that compulsory victimist attitude and shove it up your ass.
And you sir can take your shitty strawman and fuck your own face numb with it. YOU made a fallacious comparison between an organization that is enforced by law and one that is entirely voluntary with no punitive actions for non-participation. You acted like a cunt and said something idiotic and now you are trying to weasel your way out of it by invoking strawmen and going on fully unrelated tangents.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  It is a dark day indeed when the forces of evil can openly operate upon this earth, and the good must bide their time in the darkness to formulate a plan to act against this rampant evil. But there are so few lights, scattered across the night, so lonely and scared. If only I could reach them. But its hard navigating in the darkness, I trip and I fall, but I see their light and I stumble continuously trying to find my way towards them.
Cool story bro, needs more dragons, now would you kindly close your emo notebook, shut the fuck up with all the non-sequiturs, and try to stick to the actual points I'm making. I'm not interested in story time with a melodramatic cunt for a narrator.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  And that is where I have failed, that is my flaw.
And all of the rest of this nonsense in your post has not a fucking thing to do with any point of raised. I'm I supposed to be impressed with your terribly amateurish prose? Is it supposed to distract me from the fact that your idiotic ramblings have ZERO goddamn substance to them? Is it supposed to be a blinder to hide my eyes from the fact you clearly don't have a fucking single clue what you are talking about, or what I am talking about?

Son if I wanted cut-rate self-aggrandizement I'd go read the fucking Bible. Just shut up if you can't address the points being made.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I don't mind dying, but I do not want to die in vain.

That's nice. Don't care.

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20-12-2016, 02:29 AM
RE: Pope says spreading fake news is a sin
(19-12-2016 09:03 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  [Image: cad.gif]
(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  To be a Catholic one must recognize the authority of the Pope (or Antipope).
No, one becomes a Catholic the moment they are baptized. You can disagree with everything the Pope says, you can ignore every last decree or utterance he makes, you can try to shoot his ass, you can never step foot inside a church again, you can even be excommunicated from the Church but if you have been Baptized as a Catholic the Church considers you Catholic.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You don't seem to understand that very vital point.
There is no vital point because you are deliberately confusing "Catholics who don't attend mass or donate to the Church" (which is what I'm fucking talking about) with "members of entirely different denominations".
You are reaching so far up your own ass to find any excuse you can to absolve people of responsibility when they knowingly donate to an organization that aids and protects child rapists even if that means building strawman arguments or obfuscating my points.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Now this may seem all very confusing to someone who wasn't raised a Roman Catholic or someone who may not understand the Roman Catholic faith.
I grew up in the South of Ireland, I was surrounded by the Church most of my youth, which is why I can tell that you don't know what you are talking about. You can't see the damn forest for the trees.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Basically you can't BE a Catholic if you don't support the Church because the Church IS the Faith.
I'm perfectly familiar with the Fides Ecclesiae, but you are still wrong. If you have been baptized you are a Catholic as far as the church is considered. People who do not attend mass and do not give money to the Church remain Catholic so long as they are baptized.

You are making the idiotic argument that if you don't go to Church regularly or give them money than you can't be considered Catholic and the Church itself does not agree with you.


(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Which this is of course EXTREMELY confusing..
Only to you it seems.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Who do you think conducts the business of the Church?
More than one guy you dumbass.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  It is only with a decree that anything this big could be covered up for so long.
Prove it. Or wait don't bother because you are fucking demonstrably wrong. Prior to 2001 sexual abuse by priests was handled by the local dioceses. They were not even required to be reported to Rome AT ALL. The cover-ups went on for decades, most of them at the local level including priests, nuns, and bishops and mostly contained to the diocese they happened in, though the Vatican had some knowledge some of the time.

This means that the people doing the cover up were exactly who I said they were. Hell in Canada the local church, government, and police conspired to cover up allegations. I wasn't aware that the fucking Newfoundland police get their orders from the Pope.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'm not saying that the sexual abuse of children is the fault of the pope (actually it is since he would be doing nothing stop it).
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, but the people knowingly funding the sheltering and aiding of child molesters when they don't have to.... those people are blameless. Uh-huh. Rolleyes

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I am saying that the 'systematic' cover ups are.
Except that, prior to at least 2001, they were absolutely not. That the Vatican continued to actively shuffle them around and shield them from prosecution IS the Popes fault, however, the vast majority of cover-ups prior to that date were handled locally and weren't even required to be reported to Rome.

You do not know what you are talking about.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'm honestly surprised you even believe any of this talk about pedophilia in the Catholic Church. I mean it could all just be coincidences that these priests were moved about and they just so happened that many of them were Pedophiles. I meaning believing that it was deliberate without any hard core evidence would... make you a conspiracy theorist.

You mean like this example?
Or this one?

That good enough to shut your stupid mouth or would you like more examples? There are a lot more. Let me be perfectly clear: the fact that you speak without knowing what the fuck you are talking about doesn't mean everyone else does the same.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You made mention of how the Catholic Church was a voluntary organization, and that the Government is compulsory.... I pay taxes, not because I support the criminal syndicate that is my government, but because I like the basic necessities that my government provides.....
[Image: MuktU.gif]
This is the perfect example of why you are an idiotic cunt. The definition of compulsory is fucking literally "required by law". You are required by law to pay taxes to the government at the local, state/provincial, and federal level or a combination thereof.

You liking what your taxes pay for is fucking irrelevant to whether you are required by law to pay them or not and you bloody are. Making it compulsory by goddamn definition.

Giving money to the Church is entirely voluntary, they will not hunt you down and imprison you if you don't drop some money in the collection basket. YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW to pay taxes to the government, taxation is compulsory, and if you fail to do so they will force you to. How fucking ignorant of government are you that you don't even understand that? If you think it is not than feel free to look up what happens to people who decide they don't want to pay taxes anymore. Better yet stop paying taxes and in 5 years, when you finally get access to the internet in your cell, you can come and tell us all how your sentence for tax evasion is voluntary. Tax evasion. Which is a crime you fucking idiot.


Your comparison is STILL shit and still fallacious, and if you keep using it to dig your ditch deeper you will find magma long before you find a point where it's not a fucking stupid comparison.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  A long time ago, long before both of our times, being Catholic wasn't so voluntary.
Is that time......now? No? Well thanks for that pointless and irrelevant fucking historical observation.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  But make no mistake, if I have to die for what I believe in, I will die for them because....
I physically could not care less and this has utterly nothing to do with a single fucking point I have raised.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You can take that compulsory victimist attitude and shove it up your ass.
And you sir can take your shitty strawman and fuck your own face numb with it. YOU made a fallacious comparison between an organization that is enforced by law and one that is entirely voluntary with no punitive actions for non-participation. You acted like a cunt and said something idiotic and now you are trying to weasel your way out of it by invoking strawmen and going on fully unrelated tangents.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  It is a dark day indeed when the forces of evil can openly operate upon this earth, and the good must bide their time in the darkness to formulate a plan to act against this rampant evil. But there are so few lights, scattered across the night, so lonely and scared. If only I could reach them. But its hard navigating in the darkness, I trip and I fall, but I see their light and I stumble continuously trying to find my way towards them.
Cool story bro, needs more dragons, now would you kindly close your emo notebook, shut the fuck up with all the non-sequiturs, and try to stick to the actual points I'm making. I'm not interested in story time with a melodramatic cunt for a narrator.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  And that is where I have failed, that is my flaw.
And all of the rest of this nonsense in your post has not a fucking thing to do with any point of raised. I'm I supposed to be impressed with your terribly amateurish prose? Is it supposed to distract me from the fact that your idiotic ramblings have ZERO goddamn substance to them? Is it supposed to be a blinder to hide my eyes from the fact you clearly don't have a fucking single clue what you are talking about, or what I am talking about?

Son if I wanted cut-rate self-aggrandizement I'd go read the fucking Bible. Just shut up if you can't address the points being made.

(15-12-2016 10:42 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I don't mind dying, but I do not want to die in vain.

That's nice. Don't care.

If its laws you're after, Catholics by your definition do believe they are compelled to follow the church because they believe it is God's Law.

Now this is the part where we both say that god's law doesn't exist because god doesn't exist.

But you see, the law of men doesn't exist either. Because our laws are like god, they're imaginary and completely made up. So you see in reality, nothing is compulsory. So the problem isn't with me comparing the government to the Catholic church. The problem lays with you not being able to grasp the ideals of freedom for the very same reasons Catholics can't.

"Follow the laws of the government or you'll go to jail.

Follow the laws of god or you'll go to hell."

You sir have voluntarily made yourself a slave to another's bidding. You sir obey the government much the same reason why Catholics obey. Out of fear, and not just any fear, but fear of the imaginary.

As for the actions one takes against those of a religious disposition compared to a political disposition, I believe you'll find that even today many people suffer from their religious dispositions. Further more we should not define our actions by how other people will react to them, we should define our actions by what is right.

To summarize, laws are meant to be instrumented as a form of control, and control is nothing more than an illusion.



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