Possible or impossible? this is the question!
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10-05-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(10-05-2016 12:14 PM)smileyjose86 Wrote:  
(10-05-2016 10:59 AM)Gordon Blue Wrote:  Hey alla,
I asked you this in another thread;
Do you believe in the creation myth or do you accept evolutionary theory? If its the former, then you are treating scripture as a science book.
You responded with;
I believe that God is behind the creation. I accept evolutionary theory. I believe they don't contradict each other.

To me, this runs in contradiction with the OP.
If you accept evolutionary theory, adam and eve have no place in human history, unless of course you believe god made adam and eve from a pre-existing species, but that is not how the account in genesis spells it out.

To answer the OP, though;
Adam and Eve are impossible because magic isnt real.
Fully formed, complex creatures dont poof into existance. They come about through an extremely long and trying process.
The evidence for the origins of modern humans refute the concept of a primary pair that have no ancestors.

Just look at the nature of this world, we have to kill plants and animals and feed on their corpse to survive. Not to live, but to survive because we are constantly dying that is the real truth of this bullshit world. This is the real hell where all the suffering torture etc... is happening stupid christians are too blind to see that. the devils created hell is my interpretation of the bible. I don't believe in a real God I believe we become God when we free ourselves from all this bullshit.

[Image: Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif]

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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10-05-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(09-05-2016 08:32 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(09-05-2016 11:50 AM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Alla I would love for you to answer my questions. Thanks



Alla is a troll.

And water is wet.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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10-05-2016, 02:16 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(10-05-2016 12:10 PM)smileyjose86 Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 12:03 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  - It doesn't make sense for a human to be made directly dirt.
- It doesn't make sense that God would build a woman from a rib.
- There's plenty on evidence pointing to us having common ancestors with other animals.
- I don't get why the story has female coming from male, when it is the other way around.
- The story just doesn't make sense at all. It fits in with fairy tale stories.
- They lived over 900 years.

I'm sure there are other things I haven't thought of.

Usually when shit is made up is to cover for the real truth, like woman made from the man's rib is a stupid fairy tale story to cover for the real truth. Another thing that many people miss out on is on the fact that this world is imperfect is because it was made in the image and likeness of those stupid animals that made this world. Their intentions were evil, they wanted us to work for them but fuck all gods.

"Those stupid animals that made this world"? Please explain. I don't know who you're talking about. Also, a cover for the real truth? Sounds like a conspiracy.
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10-05-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 02:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 12:17 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  If you read anything about the Habsburg family or inbreeding, then it will be obvious why Adam and Eve could not be real. And you can't just add magic and make it real.

Ahhhh yes, the Hapsburg family. Inner breeding at it's finest. The below Hapsburg family tree is about 5 generations. Note the loops in the family tree. And this family tree is less in- breed than the Adam and Eve family tree.

[Image: Charles_II_Inbreeding.jpg]


And this is what the Hapsburgs ended up with.



[Image: w2padM3.gif]

Never having had a scienteriffic education I have always wondered why inbreeding produces poor results. It is how a farmer builds good stock, breeding back into the descendants the sires from before as many times as possible. SO why does it end up being bad for people?
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10-05-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 06:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 06:07 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  Some substance on the earth. Probably dirt. Could possibly also be sand. Either one of those.
In other words you have no idea what the author of the book meant by the dust of the ground. Correct?

If your book is so unbelievable that you cannot understand a simple phrase such as dust of the ground, how could you or anyone possibly believe any of it?
Brings to mind a long trip across Texas by car I made once. For hours it seemed the only radio we could pick was one, then another then another preacher telling us what the Bible meant. He'd read a few words and pause and say when it says days it is referring to years, and then when it says this it really means that and on and on for hours. That is when the lady with me said "If none of these preachers reading it can believe that it means what it says, why do they read it?" She dropped her religious beliefs that night!
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10-05-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(10-05-2016 02:37 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 02:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Ahhhh yes, the Hapsburg family. Inner breeding at it's finest. The below Hapsburg family tree is about 5 generations. Note the loops in the family tree. And this family tree is less in- breed than the Adam and Eve family tree.

[Image: Charles_II_Inbreeding.jpg]


And this is what the Hapsburgs ended up with.



[Image: w2padM3.gif]

Never having had a scienteriffic education I have always wondered why inbreeding produces poor results. It is how a farmer builds good stock, breeding back into the descendants the sires from before as many times as possible. SO why does it end up being bad for people?

Actually it ends up being bad for other animals too, for the same reason as humans.

Inbreeding for multiple generations leads to traits becoming progressively more exaggerated over time, be they physical deformities like the size of cow udders or the Hapsburg face etc, or less obvious results like susceptibility to (or tendency to develop) specific diseases. They become exaggerated because there isn't really a flow of new genes into the lineage which would otherwise restrict the activation of the inherited genes which stack up.

We don't usually notice it in animals because we're used to seeing animals as they are (bulldogs are actually a great example of the horrors of inbreeding, due to their heads, they have trouble breathing and during natural birth tend to get stuck in the birth canal), but we're not used to seeing well... abominations like the Charles II of Spain.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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10-05-2016, 03:21 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 11:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  I was told that biblical Adam and Eve are impossible. As a believer that they were real people I want to know why they are impossible.
Thank you.

Where to begin.

Let's start with some basics.

Creation myths are rampant threw out the world, threw out history. Adam and Eve hold no more validity then any of these others. They always involve some sort of supernatural power that comes into play, from gods killing Titans, gods puking, the universe hatching out of a giant egg, etc. Most and many creation myths predate Gensise by thousands of years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths

Evolution shows a gradual change threw millions of years. A series of tiny mutations over a constant and long transition period.

[Image: skulls.jpg]

paleontology We don't find our species (homo sapiens) in any layer with dinosaurs, or even close relatives like Australopithecus. that because those species faded out long before we came on the scene.

Beside the obvious skeletal stature we also share DNA with these ansetral species. Which is much harder to contest.

If the creation of man and happened at the same time as the animals we would she in the geograph layers. Or even a major transition of every speices from one location to the rest of the world. which we do not.

Homo Sapiens are seen in the layers that are from the last 200,000 years. According to the time frame presented in the bible this would be impossible. Because they believed the earth has only ever existed for the last 6,000. That means Adam and Eve can only appear in this time period. And the considering that we have enough evidence to demonstrate the earth has been around for 4.5+ billion years. and piles of evidence to demonstrate that life appeared before then. It doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[Image: f3f64ba4a4d5dcbc2e97de2e1ddd5c8b.jpg]



Animals don't talk.

[Image: SirHiss.jpg]

They lack vocal cords and over developed frontal lob that allows speech to accrue.

(08-05-2016 05:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  According to the Genesis God formed/organized Adam's body "of the dust of the ground".
Hmm, what is "dust of the ground"?

I had a discustion with Q on this very subject when I first came on to the forum.

We argued over if it said clay or dust. I was raised saying Dust he was raised saying clay. ether way it's using the earth. He clamed it was a rich Iron clay that god was able to build man from.

Q had a habit of pulling shit out of his ass. But the Hebrew word for dust is aphar. which also means Clay, earth, mud, ashes, ground, mortar, powder, rubbish.

In ancient Jewish cultures with was believed that one could give life to clay golems. You build the golem breath into it's mouth then you have a dumb servant to do your bidding. The method of this was written down in the Sepher Yetzirah. http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/yetzirah.htm

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/golem/

[Image: golem.jpg]

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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10-05-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(10-05-2016 02:37 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 02:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Ahhhh yes, the Hapsburg family. Inner breeding at it's finest. The below Hapsburg family tree is about 5 generations. Note the loops in the family tree. And this family tree is less in- breed than the Adam and Eve family tree.

[Image: Charles_II_Inbreeding.jpg]


And this is what the Hapsburgs ended up with.



[Image: w2padM3.gif]

Never having had a scienteriffic education I have always wondered why inbreeding produces poor results. It is how a farmer builds good stock, breeding back into the descendants the sires from before as many times as possible. SO why does it end up being bad for people?

It's kind of bad with animal breeding, too. This is why poodles (as just one of many examples) have so many genetic diseases. Also, you end up with pretty extreme breeds (like milk cows) that are good for what the ranchers want, but are pretty bad in terms of their own survival potential.

As for why it's so bad in general?

There's some big issues and most of them have to do with chromosome pairing. Human genetics comes in chromosomes, and chromosomes are organized in pairs. Each pair represents one chromosome from your biological father and one from your mother.

First, there's negative recessive traits. A lot of genes are recessive, meaning that they only manifest traits if you get them from both your parents. As one example, I'm a redhead. (That's not really negative, but it does make me allergic to sunlight.) That only happens if you get the gene from red hair from both your parents. So both of my parents had the gene for red hair. Neither of them have red hair, though; each had only one copy of the gene, and needed two to get red hair. That means I had a 25% chance of coming out with red hair. However, if both my parents had red hair, there would be no chance for me NOT to have it.

Okay, now let's say we're talking about a negative recessive trait (causing childhood death) and it's pretty rare. A typical person has, let's say, a 1% chance of having that gene. Any random pairing of two adults will have only a one in 40,000 chance of producing an offspring with this disease. (1/100 * 1/100 * 1/4). However, let's say one person has that gene, marries a person without that gene, and has two children. Each of those children have a 50/50 chance of having one copy of that gene or none. If those two siblings then incestuously produce offspring, the odds of those offspring having that disease is now 1 in 16. In successive generations the odds get worse, because offspring are more likely to have that single copy. Most of us have some recessive negative traits somewhere in our genetic code (because there are so many possible), but the relative rarity of any given one of these means we're pretty unlikely to pair up with someone who also has it.

For a bit more complicated of an example, some traits are positive as well as negative. Consider for example sickle cells, a trait common among people of African descent. If you have one copy of the gene, it changes your blood a bit and you're more resistant to malaria -- a clear survival advantage. But if you get two copies of the gene, you get sickle cell anemia, which is a major disadvantage.

Another factor is genetic diversity. How susceptible people are to diseases is sometimes dependent on genetics. (It depends on the disease -- some have very little to do with your genes, and some are closely tied to them.) If a lot of people have the same genes, then there's probably some strain of some disease out there that's going to hit them very, very hard, both because they all vulnerable to the same disease, and because that makes it a lot easier for the disease to spread. That's happening with cultivated bananas right now, actually. Having a family tree with a lot of genetic diversity makes the family as a whole a lot more resistant to disease; having an inbred family makes it more likely that most of you will be killed off by sickness.

There's a lot more factors at work and I'm far from an expert, but that's a few examples of how inbreeding can cause problems.
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10-05-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
Double post.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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10-05-2016, 05:34 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(10-05-2016 02:37 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  Never having had a scienteriffic education I have always wondered why inbreeding produces poor results. It is how a farmer builds good stock, breeding back into the descendants the sires from before as many times as possible. SO why does it end up being bad for people?

It's bad for the animals too. The breeders simply kill the babies that don't stack up to the new standards they've set for the animal. Nobody ever talks about all the dead baby animals it took to get the Frankenstein livestock/pets that we have today. Sad
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