Possible or impossible? this is the question!
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08-05-2016, 12:44 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 12:49 PM by Leo.)
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 11:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  I was told that biblical Adam and Eve are impossible. As a believer that they were real people I want to know why they are impossible.
Thank you.

The story is impossible. If Adam and Eve were white and blue eyes persons , why black people , Indians and Asians exists ? Remember all humans descended from Adam and Eve. So people of other races should not exist.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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08-05-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 11:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  I was told that biblical Adam and Eve are impossible. As a believer that they were real people I want to know why they are impossible.
Thank you.

We don't came from dirt. Humans came from Chuck Norris sperm. Chuck Norris jerk off with a pic of himself and then humans came to be. Got it ?

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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08-05-2016, 12:47 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
Well, there are a few problems...

Jericho was founded as a permanent agricultural settlement about 11,000 years ago. Meaning that there had to be a fairly large population in the area at the time. Five thousand years before the events of Genesis were supposed to occur.

The city of Sumer was founded 7,500 years ago, with written records dating back more than 5,500 years. Manning that there was a thriving civilization there before the events of Genesis, WITH people who could read and write.

The ancient Jews seemed to have originated as a splinter of the Canaanite group who exclusively worshipped the God El forming around 1400 BCE. There is nothing to distinguish them prior to this point from other groups in the area at the time. The myth does however resemble that of other Semitic cultures with a few of the symbols changed. This indicates that the people were trying to distance themselves from their previous religion and tribe, which is consistent with the archeological evidence.
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08-05-2016, 01:22 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
How would you like the necessarily incestuous consequences of the Adam and Eve fairytale to play out Alla? It isn't a pretty picture no matter which route you choose.

[Image: adam_and_eve.png]

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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08-05-2016, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 01:46 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
I already answered this question in another thread and was nice enough to provide a link to a site that has all the info you need to know that Adam and Eve are impossible. Even if they were somehow real they would be an earlier ancestor species and they wouldn't have lived at the same time so they weren't "mates" or created for each other by a sky wizard.

I just don't understand what the point of believing in Adam and Eve is. To believe such a simple child like story would mean completely ignoring biology, genetics, archaeology, logic, reason, and reality as a whole. You need to build a wall of fantasy around your brain to even ask the question. Even the earliest shared ancestor of humanity is a woman who lived 100,000 years ago, so if the story is an allegory of reality then Eve would've been first and Adam is a descendant of her so there's no reason to believe Adam is the lord of all creation because he was first.

I don't even know why you would ask that question here on an atheism forum, first of all this question belongs in the "Creationism" section and you're better off visiting a science forum, any one that is dedicated to the life sciences is a start. You can also search in Google "Why are Adam and Eve impossible?" and find plenty of articles and news stories citing specific research studies that disprove the biblical Genesis story.

It doesn't even matter what we say anyway, you're not going to be convinced. It's not like you're going to say "Wow, that makes so much sense! I don't believe in Genesis anymore! I will re-evaluate my entire belief system now since one part of my holy book has been disproven many other parts may also be false and thus not worth believing in, thanks guys!"

[Image: sagansig_zps6vhbql6m.jpg]
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08-05-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 01:22 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  How would you like the necessarily incestuous consequences of the Adam and Eve fairytale to play out Alla? It isn't a pretty picture no matter which route you choose.

[Image: adam_and_eve.png]

Christians have to believe the Earth had to be populated by familial incest not just once but twice, and believing in evolution is too much for them to handle.

[Image: 2efdc036a04a8c426734cfae65d5a3ad.jpg]

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08-05-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
That's not the question. The question is "Will it blend?'





Dude just laid waste to Bucky's Balls.

#sigh
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08-05-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 12:17 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  If you read anything about the Habsburg family or inbreeding, then it will be obvious why Adam and Eve could not be real. And you can't just add magic and make it real.

Ahhhh yes, the Hapsburg family. Inner breeding at it's finest. The below Hapsburg family tree is about 5 generations. Note the loops in the family tree. And this family tree is less in- breed than the Adam and Eve family tree.

[Image: Charles_II_Inbreeding.jpg]


And this is what the Hapsburgs ended up with.



[Image: w2padM3.gif]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-05-2016, 02:21 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 02:50 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 11:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  I was told that biblical Adam and Eve are impossible. As a believer that they were real people I want to know why they are impossible.
Thank you.

There are several claims made ABOUT this story (or in several of its variations) that, taken one by one, are impossible, improbable, or plausible. Taken together the story flies in the face of just about everything we understand about how a lot of things work. I'll go through a list of some troubling aspects of the story; this won't be all of them.

1) All the magical stuff. I'm going to address this quickly to get it out of the way, because while it's a big issue and it colors everything else, it's also going to be a point of dispute over whether it's impossible or highly possible. The creation from nothing (or dust) when that violates either our understanding of the conservation of energy and matter or basic chemical composition.... the creation of one person from another, with different genetic sequences, from a single rib... so on and so forth... all of this flies in the face of everything we understand, from looking at the world we live in, about what is and isn't possible. Of course the answer to this is to suppose a being able to magically do what would otherwise be impossible, and that will be the theistic response to most of these other objections -- an omnipotent God could make it possible, or resolve the contradictions in evidence or the laws of science that we see nowadays. So the best anyone can do, short of getting bogged down in an argument over whether such a god actually exists, is flag the stuff that would be impossible without some serious monkeying around with the basics of science.

2) Adam naming the animals in a single day and judging whether they are a fit help meet for him. Let's be extremely generous. Let's assume that Adam was super-fast, able to speak 11 words per second (about the rate of Guiness's world record for fast talking), spends absolutely no appreciable time actually trying to brainstorm a name, remember whether he used that name before, or agonizing whether any animal is good enough for a help-meet, can indicate their unsuitability without wasting any words on the subject (perhaps by shaking his head or some hand gesture), and can somehow produce a complete list of names without any of them being so long (into, say, the five-syllable range) such that the length of the names doesn't slow his 11 word per second rate of speech, that there aren't any significant physical obstacles such as Adam not being able to actually see a dust mite or water bear without magnification, and that the entire day is available for this process (despite the Bible saying other things happened on that day). He also doesn't need to stop talking to, say, take a drink of water, or breathe, or anything else. Under these absurdly generous assumptions, Adam would be able to name 950,400 species of animal. (That's 1 name / animal x 11 names / second x 60 seconds / minute x 60 minutes / hour * 24 hours / day = 950,400 names / day.) Unfortunately, that's not enough to even get through the insects. Presently, more than a million species of insect have been identified, and it is estimated that there are 6 to 10 million species of insect in total. Naming all the animals in a single day is impossible without some serious magic.

3) A talking snake. A snake's tongue and lips are even less capable of shaping words than, say, a dog's or a rat's. Impossible without magic.

4) A fruit that instills knowledge of moral precepts by eating it. That is so very, very, very much not how the digestive track OR the brain work, at least not without some really wacky magic. Bonus points for that moral knowledge including the idea that it is shameful to be naked with no one to see save one's spouse, a bunch of animals, and God.

5) Men don't actually rule over women in all societies. God's curse seems to be culturally dictated rather than anything that was actually enforced. It's not impossible, but it is apparently not true.

6) We've thoroughly explored the river Euphrates. There is no cherubim with a flaming sword barring access to any of its headwaters. Nor are there three other rivers spawning from the same place and going in three different directions. That's not how hydrology works. Except near estuaries (ie, deltas) rivers merge rather than go off in different directions, and even there they come back together pretty quickly.

7) This is probably getting into the territory that most skeptics object to: Incest. In addition to running into significant psychological taboos and, supposedly, flying in the face of what they learned from the fruit, incest has high odds of causing severe defects and deformations in the offspring. If practiced over several generations, the odds increase to certainty and the population dies out. That's why populations have a minimum number of members to be genetically viable. While estimates of how many people are required for a genetically viable population (that is, able to reproduce and not kill themselves off through inbred defects) is debatable and not well-tested, low estimates range in the hundreds or thousands. NOT TWO. So.... where did Caine's wife come from? Was that an unnamed offspring of Eve and Adam, ie, a sister (or perhaps niece or grand-niece or so on?) If so, incest and you've got those population issues. Was she created separately from Adam and Eve by God? Eve is described as the "mother of all who live", which seems to indicate that all humans (save Adam?) descend from her, so assuming a new woman created as Caine's wife would make the story false. Note that I'm describing a population of two people, rather than a large population CONTAINING two people (ie a genetic "Adam" and a genetic "Eve") whose genes came to eventually be found in most or all of the surviving descendants. Having the entirety of the human species descended entirely from a population of two individuals is impossible without some serious magic.

8) Genetics again. In addition to it being impossible for that descent to happen, examination of the genetic code shows that it DIDN'T. Without some serious magic, such a population bottleneck in our ancestry would be quite evident in our genes. It isn't.

(7 and 8 are also strong objections to the Noah story.)

9) Paleontology. Clear descent from common ancestry with modern ape species is mapped in the fossil record. There were never any "first human man and woman" -- there was just one branching population of apes that gradually changed over time until they adopted the characteristics we now regard as making them human, with no clearly-defined precise delineation for where the change from not-human to human occurred. While there are gaps, they are unsurprising, what we'd expect from a fossilization process that fails to capture most individuals, and most of those which ARE fossilized escape our notice. But more importantly, nothing we have found falsifies the hypothesis, and every relevant find FILLS IN A GAP. If this were a false hypothesis, it would be shown false by the finds made after it was formulated, rather than verified by finds that a false hypothesis would not be able to accurately predict.

10) Archeology. Adam and then Caine are described as tilling the Earth. Archeology shows that it took humans thousands or tens of thousands of years to develop agriculture after they started producing basic hunting tools, far longer than Adam is said to have lived.

An interesting feature of 8, 9 and 10 is that, while saying that God did some magic to produce the impossible genetic code, fossil record, and archeological record (or, at least, impossible if the Adam and Eve story is true) is a tempting answer (to people who like to believe such things), the idea that God DID do such magic implies some interesting things about God's nature. Why would God create false evidence, producing a clear picture of a history far more consistent than what it is in "His" book, that would lead people away from the true story? If Devil instead did it, why would God allow it, how did the Devil produce a more consistent work than God, and why hasn't the Devil abused such a great degree of power in more intelligent ways?
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08-05-2016, 02:22 PM
RE: Possible or impossible? this is the question!
(08-05-2016 11:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  I was told that biblical Adam and Eve are impossible. As a believer that they were real people I want to know why they are impossible.
Thank you.

Leave out magic and explain how they are real. It's your claim, back it up.
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