Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
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18-06-2016, 08:34 AM
Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
I met this girl from Algeria at a school event. You could tell she was very liberal for a North African girl by the way she dressed. Anyway, we start talking and somehow the conversation turned into about politics and religion in the Middle East etc. It turns out she's a hardcore nationalist and she hated Arabs with a passion. She proceeds to shit all over Arabs and calls them all sorts of names,
like sand monkeys and camel fuckers. So after she was done with her long rant on how Arabs ruined her culture and took over her country through conquest and violence, I thought there's NO WAY this girl is a Muslim. So I say something along the lines of "well, that's Islam for you. It destroys everything it touches".
She flips her shit and starts yelling "WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT ISLAM?!" I remind her of everything she just said and she goes "Yeah well I was talking about ARABS not ISLAM". I explain to her that Mohammed was a "sand monkey" and a "camel fucker" and she tells me to STFU Laugh out load. It was so fucking weird. I though she was trolling me but she was dead serious. I had never been more confused in my life. She repeats the usual BS about how I don't understand Islam and that she was a proud Muslim. You know, the usual crap Muslims keep repeating in every argument. And that was that. Needless to say, We won't be BFF's next school year No

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18-06-2016, 08:37 AM
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
Quote:You could tell she was very liberal for a North African girl by the way she dressed.

Showing a bit of ankle?
Cheeky slut.
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18-06-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
What it sounds like is it depends on what kind of Muslims she projects herself as. There is more Muslim on Muslim killing then there is other Jewish on Muslim killing (which is hard to believe). Just look at what happens over here in the States when Muslims act upon their religious doctrans. The more level headed moderate Muslims will say the extremist don't represent the true Islam. Same thing goes for any religious group. An Evangelical wont consider Mormons Christians, A baptist might not consider Catholics pagans. Everyone thinks they are right. Because they and only they, know the mind of God. And the right god.

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18-06-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
Face it Izel. you were just stirring up some shit, once she wigged out she was fair game.
That was about as binary and divisive a "fishing trip" as you could take Big Grin
Seriously, that is scary to think of the hateful upbringing that girl had.
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18-06-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
My personal favorite is when I'm talking to a Christian, who takes Genesis literally (we are usually talking about religion because they are objecting to their discovery that I'm an evolutionary biologist), and I begin to point out verses that show their version of God, as written by the same people who put together Genesis, is barbaric and unworthy of worship by any decent human being, they start telling me that the Bible doesn't mean what the plain words in the verses I'm quoting say, and that I "just don't understand the Bible".

What? So it's literal where it talks about magical trees and talking snakes, but figurative (or ignorable, or "only for that cultural context") where "God" wants His priests to pass on His commands to kill people who don't believe as their tribe does?

Drives me crazy!

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-06-2016, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2016 10:32 AM by tomilay.)
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
A hardcore Roman Catholic...eats, breathes, poops, sleeps Magisterium. Aristotle. Thomas Aquinas. Ex-officio papal infallibility. St. Peter's key. The scapular. Novena. Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer. Opus Dei!

This person believing themselves more sophisticated than creationists. Has convinced themselves that theistic evolution is the silver bullet. Laughs at creationist notion that Adam appears one week after the big bang. Says instead, without batting an eyelid, that Adam was the end product of evolution directed by God.

When you ask them if Adam's dad and mum were human beings or just something else, you can be guaranteed they won't address that question at all. They pretend it was never asked. Every single time.

I have more respect for creationists than theistic evolutionists. Just because you have to lack integrity to espouse theistic evolution. You only have to be pretty thick, even if genuine, to be a creationist.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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18-06-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
Many conversations with myself? One of the lines that never got me invited back to the Catholic student group as a speaker was, "Oh come on folks, every one of us is a hypocrite about something."

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18-06-2016, 11:07 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2016 11:11 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
(18-06-2016 10:28 AM)tomilay Wrote:  A hardcore Roman Catholic...eats, breathes, poops, sleeps Magisterium. Aristotle. Thomas Aquinas. Ex-officio papal infallibility. St. Peter's key. The scapular. Novena. Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer. Opus Dei!

This person believing themselves more sophisticated than creationists. Has convinced themselves that theistic evolution is the silver bullet. Laughs at creationist notion that Adam appears one week after the big bang. Says instead, without batting an eyelid, that Adam was the end product of evolution directed by God.

When you ask them if Adam's dad and mum were human beings or just something else, you can be guaranteed they won't address that question at all. They pretend it was never asked. Every single time.

I have more respect for creationists than theistic evolutionists. Just because you have to lack integrity to espouse theistic evolution. You only have to be pretty thick, even if genuine, to be a creationist.

My wife is a Methodist, not a Catholic, but also an evolutionary biologist. She has talked about this subject with me... I think you might not be giving the Catholics who share a similar philosophy enough credit. Creation is, to her, an ongoing event, not a one-time magical meddling.

She accepts evolution 100% as-is, no Divine Influence needed. She accepts Genesis as allegorical, the creation myth of the ancient Hebrews, and not as a science lecture. Adam is the Hebrew word for "man" and, just as in English, it can mean one man or the whole of humanity, and in her version he is a personification of the first humans who developed enough intelligence (I'd say imagination, of course) to recognize their Creator and give thanks/worship to this being. She also acknowledges that the early Hebrews were polytheistic Canaanites and believes that the teachings of the Prophets were attempts to gain a better understanding of the nature of God, not in the numerous war-gods and nature-gods, but in a single, unified deity. She acknowledges that the prophets of Israel were part of the same Patriarchal, barbaric social order and allowed that bias to enter into their attempts to speak for this deity. She has even acknowledged that Jesus may be, as Richard Carrier has asserted, one of the "sons of god" angelic beings, who was sent to earth to show us the way more directly than the prophets could do. And yet, because she believes the teachings that his followers claimed of him, she thinks Jesus is the Way, The Truth, and the Life™, and thus the path to heaven, so she remains a Christian. [Edit to Add: Similarly, she feels that our discoveries about the nature of God are ongoing, to be sought after as we learn more as a species, and not a single revelation given directly by God to a handful of men to be forever disseminated to all mankind, unchanging. The Bible is a guide to previous philosophies of those who sought God, and not some secretary's dictation notes.]

From what I've seen, our member KingsChosen would agree with most of those statements, as well. And since most of my mother's family are Catholics, I've met many (sadly, not among my family) who are deeply skeptical of the idea of papal infallibility and the hoaxes that others accept as "miracles".

While I certainly agree that >90% of the Christians I meet are uneducated on the topics of science, history, and theology/philosophy, I don't think it's fair to say that they're all as you describe above, any more than it's fair when theists try to compare us to Stalin, or our own uneducated loudmouths/weirdos.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-06-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
(18-06-2016 11:07 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(18-06-2016 10:28 AM)tomilay Wrote:  A hardcore Roman Catholic...eats, breathes, poops, sleeps Magisterium. Aristotle. Thomas Aquinas. Ex-officio papal infallibility. St. Peter's key. The scapular. Novena. Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer. Opus Dei!

This person believing themselves more sophisticated than creationists. Has convinced themselves that theistic evolution is the silver bullet. Laughs at creationist notion that Adam appears one week after the big bang. Says instead, without batting an eyelid, that Adam was the end product of evolution directed by God.

When you ask them if Adam's dad and mum were human beings or just something else, you can be guaranteed they won't address that question at all. They pretend it was never asked. Every single time.

I have more respect for creationists than theistic evolutionists. Just because you have to lack integrity to espouse theistic evolution. You only have to be pretty thick, even if genuine, to be a creationist.

My wife is a Methodist, not a Catholic, but also an evolutionary biologist. She has talked about this subject with me... I think you might not be giving the Catholics who share a similar philosophy enough credit. Creation is, to her, an ongoing event, not a one-time magical meddling.

She accepts evolution 100% as-is, no Divine Influence needed. She accepts Genesis as allegorical, the creation myth of the ancient Hebrews, and not as a science lecture. Adam is the Hebrew word for "man" and, just as in English, it can mean one man or the whole of humanity, and in her version he is a personification of the first humans who developed enough intelligence (I'd say imagination, of course) to recognize their Creator and give thanks/worship to this being. She also acknowledges that the early Hebrews were polytheistic Canaanites and believes that the teachings of the Prophets were attempts to gain a better understanding of the nature of God, not in the numerous war-gods and nature-gods, but in a single, unified deity. She acknowledges that the prophets of Israel were part of the same Patriarchal, barbaric social order and allowed that bias to enter into their attempts to speak for this deity. She has even acknowledged that Jesus may be, as Richard Carrier has asserted, one of the "sons of god" angelic beings, who was sent to earth to show us the way more directly than the prophets could do. And yet, because she believes the teachings that his followers claimed of him, she thinks Jesus is the Way, The Truth, and the Life™, and thus the path to heaven, so she remains a Christian. [Edit to Add: Similarly, she feels that our discoveries about the nature of God are ongoing, to be sought after as we learn more as a species, and not a single revelation given directly by God to a handful of men to be forever disseminated to all mankind, unchanging. The Bible is a guide to previous philosophies of those who sought God, and not some secretary's dictation notes.]

From what I've seen, our member KingsChosen would agree with most of those statements, as well. And since most of my mother's family are Catholics, I've met many (sadly, not among my family) who are deeply skeptical of the idea of papal infallibility and the hoaxes that others accept as "miracles".

While I certainly agree that >90% of the Christians I meet are uneducated on the topics of science, history, and theology/philosophy, I don't think it's fair to say that they're all as you describe above, any more than it's fair when theists try to compare us to Stalin, or our own uneducated loudmouths/weirdos.
RocketSurgeon76,

This was a specific case. My choice of words at fault maybe. I agree that there are plenty of otherwise sensible believers.

That said, what am I supposed to credit theistic evolutionists with? Integrity?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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18-06-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: Post your hypocritical Theist WTF??! moment story
(18-06-2016 11:22 AM)tomilay Wrote:  RocketSurgeon76,

This was a specific case. My choice of words at fault maybe. I agree that there are plenty of otherwise sensible believers.

That said, what am I supposed to credit theistic evolutionists with? Integrity?

I understand. Credit them with attempting to break their minds free of the shackles of literalism, and to understand science as a better source for knowledge than revelations/visions handed to us by prophets and priests.

And keep pointing out where they should focus harder on applying their capacity for reason, of course. Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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