Posthumanism
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10-04-2012, 08:24 AM
RE: Posthumanism
(10-04-2012 07:59 AM)TheDream Wrote:  
(10-04-2012 07:31 AM)nach_in Wrote:  that may be tricky, but what about a brain in a jar connected to a surrogate body? that could work just fine, and we would have exchangeable bodies, the trolling would be unstoppable!! Big Grin
That` the way they did it in Ghost in the Shell. That series did a lot of predictions right. Even if we had bodies like that they would need to become cheap enough for everyone, or most of us at least. They we get to brain hacking territory Smile
I hope we won't be needing money at that point, we should be far from such primitive mechanisms by then.
you think a brain could be hacked? that's an idea for a nice sci fi book Wink

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10-04-2012, 08:37 AM
RE: Posthumanism
(10-04-2012 08:24 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(10-04-2012 07:59 AM)TheDream Wrote:  That` the way they did it in Ghost in the Shell. That series did a lot of predictions right. Even if we had bodies like that they would need to become cheap enough for everyone, or most of us at least. They we get to brain hacking territory Smile
I hope we won't be needing money at that point, we should be far from such primitive mechanisms by then.
you think a brain could be hacked? that's an idea for a nice sci fi book Wink
To be honest, that`s from Ghost in the Shell, so not my idea. We could discus the problem with money, but let that be for a different topic.
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10-04-2012, 12:03 PM
RE: Posthumanism
Ghost in the Shell manga, part 2 if I'm correct, deals exactly with the problem of a hacker entering into different bodies and brains. Masamune Shirrow really knows about stuff he writes about, because he really learns about the subject at hand and develops it in beautiful ways. Throughout the manga there are technical descriptions of stuff he mentions, from weapons to bionics. Huge fan of his works here Tongue

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10-04-2012, 12:48 PM
RE: Posthumanism
(10-04-2012 12:03 PM)le_procyon Wrote:  Ghost in the Shell manga, part 2 if I'm correct, deals exactly with the problem of a hacker entering into different bodies and brains. Masamune Shirrow really knows about stuff he writes about, because he really learns about the subject at hand and develops it in beautiful ways. Throughout the manga there are technical descriptions of stuff he mentions, from weapons to bionics. Huge fan of his works here Tongue
One more fan Smile Nice to know. The first film was one of the things that introduced me to posthumanism. And I was just a kid at the time.
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10-04-2012, 03:41 PM
RE: Posthumanism
What you describe as transhumanism or posthumanism is basically removing the evolutionary animal leftovers and enhancing the instruments of body and mind.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's just a facelift, not actually changing our humanity. It's science and science doesn't try to say this or that is a purpose of life. So neither transhumanism is the purpose of life, it's only a way to somewhere.

I believe there are two evolutions. Evolution of the body or form, and evolution of the consciousness. The bodily evolution is the old, sloppy Darwinian one and we'd be all happy to upgrade it with science. However, the evolution of consciousness is something different. It has to do with IQ, several forms of emotional intelligence, self-control (skillful control, not self-restriction), virtues, creativity, awareness in broadest sense and eventually geniality and charisma or attraction of personality that has the power to gather crowds. It does not necessarily mean the person will be nice and polite to everyone (although it is a better that way) or infallible, but he or she will be influential.

The problem with evolution of consciousness is, that it depends on progress through the law of rebirth (reincarnation) and not only genetics or upbringing. (that is, for people who have noticeably evolved consciousness to overcome these factors) Although of course good condition of the body is an important factor. This is something that requires you to make a personal opinion based on experience. I've had enough opportunities to observe phenomena that suggest this is the origin of consciousness, in subtle bodies rather than in biologic brain. Based on your experience (or lack of it) your opinion will be probably different. That is all right.

This is why I am (as an esotericist) not impressed by ideas like transferring our brains into vats interfacing with computer. It only shows how little we know about the nature of life and consciousness. I think in the future we will find out that the brain is more like a receiver and specialized processor of consciousness, not the source. Transhumanistic bodily improvement will be always important, but not overestimated.
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10-04-2012, 03:52 PM
RE: Posthumanism
Oh man the post started great and then BAM reincarnation. What a shame.

But I do agree transhumanism can much strongly influence evolution of the body, and much less evolution of the mind.

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11-04-2012, 02:40 AM
RE: Posthumanism
(10-04-2012 03:52 PM)le_procyon Wrote:  Oh man the post started great and then BAM reincarnation. What a shame.

But I do agree transhumanism can much strongly influence evolution of the body, and much less evolution of the mind.
I'm a guy who poked a lot in the dark cellar of my psychological insides, searching for a light switch. In my personal experience, advancement in consciousness is achieved by several methods, some of which I understand, some I don't. But none are chemical or technological. Or even psychological, in the clinical sense. It is like a whole different set of laws. If one of these laws was reincarnation, it would explain an awful lot of things.


There is another problem with transhumanism, as I wrote elsewhere, we can safely handle as much technology, as we have ethical awareness. Too much technology and too little ethics means trouble. I prefer a highly technological society, but I see it requires a philosophical groundwork and similarly systematic work on increasing ethics of the society.

This is why I'm puzzled by transhumanists, they don't seem to notice such fundamental questions. When I watch Ghost in the Shell, I don't see only cyborgs with pickled brains, I see also violence, corporate greed, wars and so on. In reality it's not as much fun as it may seem.
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11-04-2012, 05:37 AM
RE: Posthumanism
(11-04-2012 02:40 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(10-04-2012 03:52 PM)le_procyon Wrote:  Oh man the post started great and then BAM reincarnation. What a shame.

But I do agree transhumanism can much strongly influence evolution of the body, and much less evolution of the mind.
I'm a guy who poked a lot in the dark cellar of my psychological insides, searching for a light switch. In my personal experience, advancement in consciousness is achieved by several methods, some of which I understand, some I don't. But none are chemical or technological. Or even psychological, in the clinical sense. It is like a whole different set of laws. If one of these laws was reincarnation, it would explain an awful lot of things.


There is another problem with transhumanism, as I wrote elsewhere, we can safely handle as much technology, as we have ethical awareness. Too much technology and too little ethics means trouble. I prefer a highly technological society, but I see it requires a philosophical groundwork and similarly systematic work on increasing ethics of the society.

This is why I'm puzzled by transhumanists, they don't seem to notice such fundamental questions. When I watch Ghost in the Shell, I don't see only cyborgs with pickled brains, I see also violence, corporate greed, wars and so on. In reality it's not as much fun as it may seem.
I don`t consider claims of reincarnation seriously. I spent years researching about it, examining myself for a long time, talking to others, listening to others that say that they have been reincarnated. And I concluded that those can`t be considered seriously. If you want to talk about this, open a different topic.

If you want a world wit out wars, corruption and greed you need to get rid of money and to fulfill everyone's needs. What makes you, you are the collection of experiences, memories and genetics. Most of those are your brain. Mind uploads and brain transfers are and will be possible. There are dangers with it, but I don`t agree about what those dangers are. People are greedy, it makes people do some very bad things. But it`s one of the driving forces of humanity. Something that makes us want more, to live better, have nicer things and then someone will invent them and so on.
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11-04-2012, 06:43 AM
RE: Posthumanism
(11-04-2012 02:40 AM)Luminon Wrote:  *new-age babble*


There is another problem with transhumanism, as I wrote elsewhere, we can safely handle as much technology, as we have ethical awareness. Too much technology and too little ethics means trouble. I prefer a highly technological society, but I see it requires a philosophical groundwork and similarly systematic work on increasing ethics of the society.

This is why I'm puzzled by transhumanists, they don't seem to notice such fundamental questions. When I watch Ghost in the Shell, I don't see only cyborgs with pickled brains, I see also violence, corporate greed, wars and so on. In reality it's not as much fun as it may seem.
Are you trying to say that technology makes us unethical? That's funny, cause I always thought that greed and selfishness make us unethical.

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11-04-2012, 09:56 AM
RE: Posthumanism
(11-04-2012 06:43 AM)le_procyon Wrote:  Are you trying to say that technology makes us unethical? That's funny, cause I always thought that greed and selfishness make us unethical.
No, what I say is, that technology enhances everything we do, good or bad. This is why, the more technology we have, the more we need to be ethical, to use technology correctly.
We can see a good example of greed and selfishness enhanced by technology in global stock markets and financial system. These are unfair systems without failsafes that work basically as economic weapons.

(11-04-2012 05:37 AM)TheDream Wrote:  If you want a world wit out wars, corruption and greed you need to get rid of money and to fulfill everyone's needs. What makes you, you are the collection of experiences, memories and genetics. Most of those are your brain. Mind uploads and brain transfers are and will be possible. There are dangers with it, but I don`t agree about what those dangers are. People are greedy, it makes people do some very bad things. But it`s one of the driving forces of humanity. Something that makes us want more, to live better, have nicer things and then someone will invent them and so on.
We are more than memories and genetics. At the very least, we are conditioned by the state of our nerve and endocrine system. Our personality is modular. Memory could be recorded, as a snapshot. But a personality with its characteristics exists even without memory, there are patients like that who temporarily lose the ability to remember - and they deal with this situation in their special ways.
What about a present level of awareness? What about our active abilities, like interests that do not exist except the moment we perform them? What about our endocrine system and pathways to amygdala and how much do we control them? What about our adrenal glands? How much of our personality are neurons of the brain and how much are endocrine glands and collective signals of the body, glucose-hungry cells, sensitive stomach, or the pride we have in our bicepses? How do we record it? Is there any point in it? What remains of us if we won't? What if we want to record only our "better self" and not our "worse self"?
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