Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
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21-11-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:16 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:01 PM)C²L Wrote:  Am I a Jew?
I know how the separation of mind, body, and spirit has affected Western society, but the communion is an exception to the rule. Also it is the same Mystery as the substance of the Christ. It is bread, it is Christ. It is not any more one than the other.
The bread IS christ, is that a metaphor?
I once thought that, how wrong I was..
I have no problem with catholics (was once roman catholic myself) but this little thing about transubstantiation always bothered me.
Welcome by the way, you seem niceThumbsup

No dude, sorry. (I'm not trying to be mean sorry just let me show you)

When that priest rings that bell and says that prayer, that is NOT a piece of bread anymore. That IS Jesus Christ's flesh, not a part of him, but Jesus in His entirety.

Same thing with the wine.
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21-11-2013, 09:26 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:23 PM)C²L Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:16 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  The bread IS christ, is that a metaphor?
I once thought that, how wrong I was..
I have no problem with catholics (was once roman catholic myself) but this little thing about transubstantiation always bothered me.
Welcome by the way, you seem niceThumbsup

No dude, sorry. (I'm not trying to be mean sorry just let me show you)

When that priest rings that bell and says that prayer, that is NOT a piece of bread anymore. That IS Jesus Christ's flesh, not a part of him, but Jesus in His entirety.

Same thing with the wine.

I hate to break it to you dude, but it's still just a piece of bread.

Also, Alf was a puppet. I know, I'm sorry.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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21-11-2013, 09:27 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:23 PM)C²L Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:16 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  The bread IS christ, is that a metaphor?
I once thought that, how wrong I was..
I have no problem with catholics (was once roman catholic myself) but this little thing about transubstantiation always bothered me.
Welcome by the way, you seem niceThumbsup

No dude, sorry. (I'm not trying to be mean sorry just let me show you)

When that priest rings that bell and says that prayer, that is NOT a piece of bread anymore. That IS Jesus Christ's flesh, not a part of him, but Jesus in His entirety.

Same thing with the wine.

That is your belief. A belief for which you have no evidence and which makes no actual sense.

You are welcome to claim it as a belief, but you are not welcome to call it a fact.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-11-2013, 09:29 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 03:00 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:21 PM)C²L Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is NOT ONE example in all of Reality, where "substance" is difference" from "accident".

Here we go, my planned response to this predictable answer.

If I showed you a chair with four legs and a chair with three legs, and let's say, a green chair with four legs, they all have different traits. You'll notice one has three legs, two have for legs, two are plain and yet one is green. They are though all in essence, chairs. Their accidents such as the color and number of legs differ, but they are all tools on which we sit on. It is the same with the Christ. Since all things are God, and Jesus is God, the Christ in his actual body and the Christ in the wafer are in no way different.

Fail. Complete fail. So easy to debunk.
Your brain LEARNED what chairs are, ONLY by seeing and experiencing (specific examples) of chairs. There is NO "chair essence" ANYWHERE, other than in your brain cells. When your brain sees something that resembles what it learned chairs *resemble*, your brain makes the determination they are similar enough to conflate the object with what your brain has learned, (and which exists NOWHERE except in your brain cells).

The analogy to Christ and god is the fallacy of the false analogy.
The church NEVER teaches that "all things are god". I challenge you to finfd ONE PLACE they say that. (That is called Pantheism). I see you really don't know what your church teaches. How can god "create" *things* that are (more of) himself, if he was perfect in the first place ? Such nonsense.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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21-11-2013, 09:31 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:21 PM)C²L Wrote:  Here we go, my planned response to this predictable answer.

If I showed you a chair with four legs and a chair with three legs, and let's say, a green chair with four legs, they all have different traits. You'll notice one has three legs, two have for legs, two are plain and yet one is green. They are though all in essence, chairs. Their accidents such as the color and number of legs differ, but they are all tools on which we sit on. It is the same with the Christ. Since all things are God, and Jesus is God, the Christ in his actual body and the Christ in the wafer are in no way different.

Fail. Complete fail. So easy to debunk.
Your brain LEARNED what chairs are, ONLY by seeing and experiencing chairs. There is NO "chair essence" ANYWHERE, other than in your brain cells. When your brain sees something that resembles what it learned chairs *resemble*, your brain makes the determination they are similar enough to conflate the object with what your brain has learned, (and which exists NOWHERE except in your brain cells).

The analogy to Christ and god is the fallacy of the false analogy.
The church NEVER teaches that "all things are god". I challenge you to finfd ONE PLACE they say that. (That is called Pantheism). I see you really don't know what your church teaches. How can god "create" *things* that are (more of) himself, if he was perfect in the first place ? Such nonsense.

Ahem, God the Father is God, and He is the Creator, so yes he is in all things.

As for your feeeeeeeeble response to my post, we are operating under the same view one would have of the Christ: through reality.

Do you understand now?
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21-11-2013, 09:32 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:23 PM)C²L Wrote:  No dude, sorry. (I'm not trying to be mean sorry just let me show you)

When that priest rings that bell and says that prayer, that is NOT a piece of bread anymore. That IS Jesus Christ's flesh, not a part of him, but Jesus in His entirety.

Same thing with the wine.

That is your belief. A belief for which you have no evidence and which makes no actual sense.

You are welcome to claim it as a belief, but you are not welcome to call it a fact.

Yes, it is my belief. You must be so smart.
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21-11-2013, 09:33 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:01 PM)C²L Wrote:  Am I a Jew?
I know how the separation of mind, body, and spirit has affected Western society, but the communion is an exception to the rule. Also it is the same Mystery as the substance of the Christ. It is bread, it is Christ. It is not any more one than the other.

Word salad, incoherent nonsense.

Reminds me of someone else. Undecided


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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21-11-2013, 09:35 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:23 PM)C²L Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:16 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  The bread IS christ, is that a metaphor?
I once thought that, how wrong I was..
I have no problem with catholics (was once roman catholic myself) but this little thing about transubstantiation always bothered me.
Welcome by the way, you seem niceThumbsup

No dude, sorry. (I'm not trying to be mean sorry just let me show you)

When that priest rings that bell and says that prayer, that is NOT a piece of bread anymore. That IS Jesus Christ's flesh, not a part of him, but Jesus in His entirety.

Same thing with the wine.
Yes I know what you are saying, just kinda puzzling how that happens you know?
It isn't metaphorical, not symbolic it just is. Right?
If thats the case I'll just have to live with this impasse and I'm okay with thatBig Grin

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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21-11-2013, 09:36 PM
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:31 PM)C²L Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Fail. Complete fail. So easy to debunk.
Your brain LEARNED what chairs are, ONLY by seeing and experiencing chairs. There is NO "chair essence" ANYWHERE, other than in your brain cells. When your brain sees something that resembles what it learned chairs *resemble*, your brain makes the determination they are similar enough to conflate the object with what your brain has learned, (and which exists NOWHERE except in your brain cells).

The analogy to Christ and god is the fallacy of the false analogy.
The church NEVER teaches that "all things are god". I challenge you to finfd ONE PLACE they say that. (That is called Pantheism). I see you really don't know what your church teaches. How can god "create" *things* that are (more of) himself, if he was perfect in the first place ? Such nonsense.

Ahem, God the Father is God, and He is the Creator, so yes he is in all things.

As for your feeeeeeeeble response to my post, we are operating under the same view one would have of the Christ: through reality.

Do you understand now?

Your silly Platonic argument is knocked down in a first course in philosophy. You don't seem to be viewing anything through reality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-11-2013, 09:38 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 03:01 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Practicing Roman Catholic, here.
(21-11-2013 09:31 PM)C²L Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Fail. Complete fail. So easy to debunk.
Your brain LEARNED what chairs are, ONLY by seeing and experiencing chairs. There is NO "chair essence" ANYWHERE, other than in your brain cells. When your brain sees something that resembles what it learned chairs *resemble*, your brain makes the determination they are similar enough to conflate the object with what your brain has learned, (and which exists NOWHERE except in your brain cells).

The analogy to Christ and god is the fallacy of the false analogy.
The church NEVER teaches that "all things are god". I challenge you to finfd ONE PLACE they say that. (That is called Pantheism). I see you really don't know what your church teaches. How can god "create" *things* that are (more of) himself, if he was perfect in the first place ? Such nonsense.

Ahem, God the Father is God, and He is the Creator, so yes he is in all things.

As for your feeeeeeeeble response to my post, we are operating under the same view one would have of the Christ: through reality.

Do you understand now?

Saying god is "in" all thing, and "IS" all things (which IS WHAT YOU SAID) are totally different. You have no evidence for your assertion, thus it is meaningless. Calling a response "feeble" without attacking it directly, only makes you look feeble.
*We* are doing nothing. YOU are making claims for which there is not a shred of evidence. There is also no reason why your "Christ" HAS to follow the rules of Logic and *Reality*. If your deity is SUBJECT to Reality, it could not have created the very reality to which is subject, (speaking of "feeeeeeeble").

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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