Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
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06-01-2014, 11:47 PM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
If there were a god, either he has a plan and every prayer is completely pointless (save for the ones that just express gratitude), or there is no plan. If he is sans plans, then he is a bit of a dick when it comes to choosing which prayers to answer yes to.

But they all claim that there is a plan and that prayer works—very contradictory. WTF?

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07-01-2014, 07:07 AM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
(06-01-2014 10:29 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:21 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How fucked is that?

"God, why did I get cancer?"

"So you'd ask me to fix it. I have the biggest self esteem issues in all of creation. No need to thank me."
Even more fucked up is the fact that the concept of prayer itself suggests that you are unhappy with the world your supposed "Omni______ God" made for you.

Yeah. Why don't people should "Praise Jesus!" when their kid gets cancer?


Incidentally, there is another reason for prayer, which would fit in with the first two scenarios. It's basically for the person praying and not for God. I've heard several Christians echo this sentiment (I'm assuming they ran though similar logic above).

Of course, this means that prayer is as effective as guided meditation, or something, so there's that.
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07-01-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
(07-01-2014 07:07 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 10:29 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Even more fucked up is the fact that the concept of prayer itself suggests that you are unhappy with the world your supposed "Omni______ God" made for you.
Yeah. Why don't people should "Praise Jesus!" when their kid gets cancer?
they'll just roll eyes and say "God works in mysterious ways" [Image: God+Damn.jpg]

Prayer is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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07-01-2014, 09:36 AM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
It's because most Christians have a misunderstanding as to what prayer is.

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07-01-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
Then what exactly is prayer if most christians are doing it wrong? When I went to my wife's church, they encourage all to pray for God to help with the ills of the world, human suffering, protection from harm, guidance, good fortune, growing the membership, and so on...

If it is not to ask for the almighty ruler in control to do something good that is tangible, then it must just be a form of phsycological trickery for the purpose of control.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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07-01-2014, 09:55 AM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
(07-01-2014 09:50 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Then what exactly is prayer if most christians are doing it wrong? When I went to my wife's church, they encourage all to pray for God to help with the ills of the world, human suffering, protection from harm, guidance, good fortune, growing the membership, and so on...

If it is not to ask for the almighty ruler in control to do something good that is tangible, then it must just be a form of phsycological trickery for the purpose of control.

I've addressed prayers many times before. Here's what I said in other threads:

Prayer is essential because it is communication with God. Most people see prayer as “Oh hai god! Heal plz. Can I have this?” Prayer, in essence, isn’t this at all. Yes, our fates our determined, but this line of communication helps us understand God. It allows Him to answer questions. He can reveal to us the “whys”. Prayer is for us. It’s not for God.

We are to pray for others in obedience. Praying for others also allows God to reveal to us how He wants us to be used, what to say, and how to act around others. Ultimately, none of that is our choice; however, prayer is use as an explanation for His purpose and a look into His will.

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07-01-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
(07-01-2014 09:55 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I've addressed prayers many times before. Here's what I said in other threads:

Prayer is essential because it is communication with God. Most people see prayer as “Oh hai god! Heal plz. Can I have this?” Prayer, in essence, isn’t this at all. Yes, our fates our determined, but this line of communication helps us understand God. It allows Him to answer questions. He can reveal to us the “whys”. Prayer is for us. It’s not for God.

We are to pray for others in obedience. Praying for others also allows God to reveal to us how He wants us to be used, what to say, and how to act around others. Ultimately, none of that is our choice; however, prayer is use as an explanation for His purpose and a look into His will.

I get that it is the only way to connect (in your mind) with your god, so I see the purpose to a beliver. If it is not our choice as you say in what we do or how we act, can we then say that if we pray for someone in need, but are not motivated to provide tangible help, it is God's will for this situation to be just so? Sorry I just do not get it and just ranting in another prayer thread, but it is fascinating hoow people of faith percive the whole thing.

I bet if you substituted your name in place of your god's name in all your prayers, the same answers/thoughts/conclusions would arise in your mind.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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07-01-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
(07-01-2014 10:11 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I get that it is the only way to connect (in your mind) with your god, so I see the purpose to a beliver. If it is not our choice as you say in what we do or how we act, can we then say that if we pray for someone in need, but are not motivated to provide tangible help, it is God's will for this situation to be just so? Sorry I just do not get it and just ranting in another prayer thread, but it is fascinating hoow people of faith percive the whole thing.

I bet if you substituted your name in place of your god's name in all your prayers, the same answers/thoughts/conclusions would arise in your mind.
I think prayer is more of a mental discipline to keep your faith in check.

The matter of the fact is that you really have no real connection with God so to bridge that gap most believers make this "pseudo connection" via praying.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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07-01-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
Prayer is just talking to yourself...... its just that simple folks.
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07-01-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Prayer And Theists Constantly Contradicting Themselves On The Subject
..[Image: prayer.jpg]

[Image: answered-and-unanswered-prayers.jpg]

[Image: atheistprayer.jpg]

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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