Prayer effectiveness
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03-12-2014, 08:02 AM
Prayer effectiveness
So I made a thread about the question: Should Jesus have returned by now? which I asked a priest with great knowledge about the bible.

This time I asked him: Why do not prayers work all the time when it says it works if you pray and believe it will happen?

He answered something along the lines: That's because our prayers must not be selfish, and God don't want to answer selfish prayers.

I didn't give it much thought before I went to sleep that night.

I thought: Does that mean that if a bunch of people (Bible says it helps to be two too, right?) pray for someone else who is sick... Will that person be healed?
Even if this person is already a 100% christian who doesn't need to suffer to seek god?

If the person don't get healed, wouldn't that imply that God is sadistic?
Cuz I don't see what "God's plan" could be in such a case.

Is prayer the achilles heel of the Bible?
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03-12-2014, 08:06 AM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 08:02 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  So I made a thread about the question: Should Jesus have returned by now? which I asked a priest with great knowledge about the bible.

This time I asked him: Why do not prayers work all the time when it says it works if you pray and believe it will happen?

He answered something along the lines: That's because our prayers must not be selfish, and God don't want to answer selfish prayers.

I didn't give it much thought before I went to sleep that night.

I thought: Does that mean that if a bunch of people (Bible says it helps to be two too, right?) pray for someone else who is sick... Will that person be healed?
Even if this person is already a 100% christian who doesn't need to suffer to seek god?

If the person don't get healed, wouldn't that imply that God is sadistic?
Cuz I don't see what "God's plan" could be in such a case.

Is prayer the achilles heel of the Bible?

No. The Bible is the Achilles Heel of the Bible.
He said "ask ANYTHING in my name, and it will be granted".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-12-2014, 08:08 AM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 08:02 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  This time I asked him: Why do not prayers work all the time when it says it works if you pray and believe it will happen?

He answered something along the lines: That's because our prayers must not be selfish, and God don't want to answer selfish prayers.

Everything makes sense when you are allowed to apply any ad-hoc justification you can come up with to square what you believe with that pesky evidence to the contrary.

Mr Deity did a great job on the question...



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03-12-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
This dovetails into the problem of evil which offers proof that an omni being is unlikely and even contradictory.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-12-2014, 08:39 AM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2014 09:46 AM by CleverUsername.)
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 08:02 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  I thought: Does that mean that if a bunch of people (Bible says it helps to be two too, right?) pray for someone else who is sick... Will that person be healed?
Even if this person is already a 100% christian who doesn't need to suffer to seek god?

My mother, a Christian, was hospitalized a month or so ago. She works at a convent, so she had a bunch of nuns praying for her, presumably every day.

Absolutely nothing happened.

So the answer to that would be "Nope, doesn't work".

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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03-12-2014, 09:44 AM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 08:02 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  He answered something along the lines: That's because our prayers must not be selfish, and God don't want to answer selfish prayers.

The guy doesn't know his own apologetics. As you've already pointed out, his reason is trivially stupid, and the only way he can keep it up is to double down and say that it's selfish to ask for help for others (WTF!?) or that anything that goes against God's will is selfish (how would we know, and of what use is prayer?).

The more traditional answer lies in hand waving this as all prayers get answered, but not always how you want. Also, something something mysterious ways. See, the normal answer is to not give an answer. Christian apologetics 101.


(03-12-2014 08:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. The Bible is the Achilles Heel of the Bible.
He said "ask ANYTHING in my name, and it will be granted".

They say that even if you have the tiniest amount of faith (as a mustard seed), you can move mountains. This, of course, leaves the apologist to counter that you don't have enough faith.

Similarly, we all have repressed memories of the bad things our mommies did to us. Those of us that don't remember can't, because the memories are repressed.
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03-12-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
Prayer does fuck all. End of story.
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03-12-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 11:49 AM)Bear100 Wrote:  Prayer does fuck all. End of story.

Actually prayer harms you in some cases. Tongue
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...133554.htm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-12-2014, 12:27 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 08:39 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  
(03-12-2014 08:02 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  I thought: Does that mean that if a bunch of people (Bible says it helps to be two too, right?) pray for someone else who is sick... Will that person be healed?
Even if this person is already a 100% christian who doesn't need to suffer to seek god?

My mother, a Christian, was hospitalized a month or so ago. She works at a convent, so she had a bunch of nuns praying for her, presumably every day.

Absolutely nothing happened.

So the answer to that would be "Nope, doesn't work".

Yabut, she's out of the hospital now, right?

Checkmate atheists!

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03-12-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
Whoa, so I'm starting to think prayer might actually work. I just prayed for nothing to happen...and I kid you not, nothing happened. Gasp

It was totally freaky.

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Their thoughts are someone else's opinions,
their lives a mimicry,
their passions a quotation."
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