Prayer effectiveness
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03-12-2014, 02:25 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
Prayer can be beneficial in the same way that meditation can be beneficial. Calming yourself and clearing your thoughts can help make you feel better and even help you make better decisions, or at least ones that you feel better about.

There's just no evidence that it has any external effect at all.

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03-12-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
You guys are just too pessimistic. I can prove that prayer works beyond any doubt. You just don't wait to listen for his answers.

Step 1. Pray for anything you want.

Step 2. Wait.

Your answer will be in either Yes, no, or wait.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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03-12-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 08:02 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  So I made a thread about the question: Should Jesus have returned by now? which I asked a priest with great knowledge about the bible.

This time I asked him: Why do not prayers work all the time when it says it works if you pray and believe it will happen?

He answered something along the lines: That's because our prayers must not be selfish, and God don't want to answer selfish prayers.

I didn't give it much thought before I went to sleep that night.

I thought: Does that mean that if a bunch of people (Bible says it helps to be two too, right?) pray for someone else who is sick... Will that person be healed?
Even if this person is already a 100% christian who doesn't need to suffer to seek god?

If the person don't get healed, wouldn't that imply that God is sadistic?
Cuz I don't see what "God's plan" could be in such a case.

Is prayer the achilles heel of the Bible?

he fails, he should have said, "god always answers prayers, it is just not always answered the way you want...no is an answer"....still a weak sauce answer, but better than "god doesn't answer selfish prayers"...so i guess the 14 million jews that were marched into the ovens were being selfish when I am sure, they were praying fervently..

you hear the phrase "power of prayer" often from the faithful...and I was thinking...since there is what....8 billion ppl in the world, and 80%ish purport to believe in a god...so it is probably safe to say that at least 6 billion ppl believe in a god, lets just half that for argument's sake...so the world has 3 billion people that believe in a god, and most likely utter a silent prayer at least once a day..from the mild "please god let me get to work on time", to the frightening "please god dont let him kill me" type prayers. From mild to moderate to fervent, 3 billion people probably utter one prayer a day....just go with it for the moment...so out of those 3 billion daily prayers, how many get answered?

The very few that appear to be answered I posit it is due to the lottery of chance and coincidence. However, if you are the believer who say prayed "oh god let my numbers come in on the lottery pick" (just like every other faithful person who bought a ticket)...and one of those believers wins the lottery...he or she is going to think, Oh my god, he answered my prayer...I am living proof....no, no I say there was 3 billion pulls on the the one armed bandit of prayers game machine and it just seems that your pull happened to come up with the three lemons.....but the bible says ask and ye shall receive right? for example

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

so think about it this way, the handful of prayers that seem to have been answered is not an indication that prayer works, rather we must look at it from the other angle, why didnt the other 2,999,999,992 ish prayers get answered? To me this is an indication that there is no power of prayer, rather it is just the lottery of chance and coincidence.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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03-12-2014, 03:20 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 02:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(03-12-2014 08:02 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  So I made a thread about the question: Should Jesus have returned by now? which I asked a priest with great knowledge about the bible.

This time I asked him: Why do not prayers work all the time when it says it works if you pray and believe it will happen?

He answered something along the lines: That's because our prayers must not be selfish, and God don't want to answer selfish prayers.

I didn't give it much thought before I went to sleep that night.

I thought: Does that mean that if a bunch of people (Bible says it helps to be two too, right?) pray for someone else who is sick... Will that person be healed?
Even if this person is already a 100% christian who doesn't need to suffer to seek god?

If the person don't get healed, wouldn't that imply that God is sadistic?
Cuz I don't see what "God's plan" could be in such a case.

Is prayer the achilles heel of the Bible?

he fails, he should have said, "god always answers prayers, it is just not always answered the way you want...no is an answer"....still a weak sauce answer, but better than "god doesn't answer selfish prayers"...so i guess the 14 million jews that were marched into the ovens were being selfish when I am sure, they were praying fervently..

you hear the phrase "power of prayer" often from the faithful...and I was thinking...since there is what....8 billion ppl in the world, and 80%ish purport to believe in a god...so it is probably safe to say that at least 6 billion ppl believe in a god, lets just half that for argument's sake...so the world has 3 billion people that believe in a god, and most likely utter a silent prayer at least once a day..from the mild "please god let me get to work on time", to the frightening "please god dont let him kill me" type prayers. From mild to moderate to fervent, 3 billion people probably utter one prayer a day....just go with it for the moment...so out of those 3 billion daily prayers, how many get answered?

The very few that appear to be answered I posit it is due to the lottery of chance and coincidence. However, if you are the believer who say prayed "oh god let my numbers come in on the lottery pick" (just like every other faithful person who bought a ticket)...and one of those believers wins the lottery...he or she is going to think, Oh my god, he answered my prayer...I am living proof....no, no I say there was 3 billion pulls on the the one armed bandit of prayers game machine and it just seems that your pull happened to come up with the three lemons.....but the bible says ask and ye shall receive right? for example

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

so think about it this way, the handful of prayers that seem to have been answered is not an indication that prayer works, rather we must look at it from the other angle, why didnt the other 2,999,999,992 ish prayers get answered? To me this is an indication that there is no power of prayer, rather it is just the lottery of chance and coincidence.

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Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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03-12-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
(03-12-2014 12:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-12-2014 11:49 AM)Bear100 Wrote:  Prayer does fuck all. End of story.

Actually prayer harms you in some cases. Tongue
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...133554.htm

Damnit.

I wanted to link that.

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03-12-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
Prayer is solely for the benefit of the person performing the prayers. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy that they are doing something they see as caring, but we all know it is not done to produce concrete results. It is a selfish and therapeutic form of wishful thinking at best.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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03-12-2014, 04:58 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
Prayer is such bs no matter how you look at it.

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I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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03-12-2014, 04:58 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
I've never prayed for anything in my life. I've hoped for things but I think it's different than praying. There's no being that's receiving the hoped for thought to give it a thumbs up or down. Hope is just hope.

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03-12-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Prayer effectiveness
I too could make anything seem plausible if I'm allowed to just make up random, fairytale bullshit off the top of my head.
When you're talking magic, the only limit is your imagination.
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