Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
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02-04-2017, 04:17 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 02:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  There are two things that neither FAITH nor PRAYER can do:
1) my faith and my prayer will not force anyone to choose the path of righteousness
2) my faith and my prayer will not force my will upon God. I can not force God to comply with my desires - no matter how right I think I am or how sincerely I pray.

So then, what form do your prayers take? They can't be intercessory in nature (you just said as much), so do you offer prayers of thanks, prayers of supplication, etc?

What is the ultimate point of prayer?

Boru
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02-04-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 04:15 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Growing up Catholic, prayer was used an awful lot as penance...punishment, as it were.

Especially after going to confession...we were some of the fastest prayers anywhere. Good thing we didn't have to freestyle like other Christian faiths...for us it was rote. The faster, the better. Deep meaning there I tell ya.

In my fundie household, prayer was often used as a weapon. My parents were expert freestylers! Typical dinner prayer: "Heavenly Father, thank you for blessing us with this meal today. Please help us all to be true lights to shine for you, and also please help little Julep get control of her temper and learn to use her time more wisely..." Etc.
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02-04-2017, 05:19 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 04:21 PM)julep Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 04:15 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Growing up Catholic, prayer was used an awful lot as penance...punishment, as it were.

Especially after going to confession...we were some of the fastest prayers anywhere. Good thing we didn't have to freestyle like other Christian faiths...for us it was rote. The faster, the better. Deep meaning there I tell ya.

In my fundie household, prayer was often used as a weapon. My parents were expert freestylers! Typical dinner prayer: "Heavenly Father, thank you for blessing us with this meal today. Please help us all to be true lights to shine for you, and also please help little Julep get control of her temper and learn to use her time more wisely..." Etc.

That's just fucked up.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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02-04-2017, 05:30 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 04:17 PM)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:  What is the ultimate point of prayer?

1) to thank God for blessings. When I think about blessings that I have I can realize that my life is not that bad. I don't take many things for granted.
2) to get strength to endure to the end
3) to receive comfort and peace

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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02-04-2017, 05:41 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 05:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 04:17 PM)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:  What is the ultimate point of prayer?

1) to thank God for blessings. When I think about blessings that I have I can realize that my life is not that bad. I don't take many things for granted.
2) to get strength to endure to the end
3) to receive comfort and peace

Is god supposed to give you comfort and peace, endurance and strength?

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-04-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
I know I'm in the minority here but I don't think free will is compatible with Judaism, Christianity, Islam; or atheism.

God knows so it's set.

Chemicals don't make decisions so it's set.

I'm quite sure free will is an illusion with an evolutionary advantage.
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02-04-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 01:40 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Mmmkay. How does prayer work with free will and the big ol "plan" that christians claim their god has. Somehow this seems like an oxymoron, or moronic ...whichever.

If god has a plan for everyone how is prayer supposed work. If he changes his mind and listens to a prayer then this means that god's plan was flawed. Then how is free will figured into the mix. How do christians answer this dilemma.

Something's amiss here. Dodgy
I have asked this question numerous times in my many years of posting on forums like this (this month marks my 16th anniversary). The closest thing to an answer I've ever received was something about how prayer keeps humans humble.
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02-04-2017, 06:12 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 05:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 04:17 PM)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:  What is the ultimate point of prayer?

1) to thank God for blessings. When I think about blessings that I have I can realize that my life is not that bad. I don't take many things for granted.
2) to get strength to endure to the end
3) to receive comfort and peace

> Have you considered that receiving strength, comfort and peace might be merely the expected placebo effect acquired through the ritual of praying? Huh
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02-04-2017, 06:18 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 05:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 04:17 PM)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:  What is the ultimate point of prayer?

1) to thank God for blessings. When I think about blessings that I have I can realize that my life is not that bad. I don't take many things for granted.
2) to get strength to endure to the end
3) to receive comfort and peace

And yet you have zero proof any of that comes from a "god".
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02-04-2017, 06:21 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 03:19 PM)julep Wrote:  CYA. IMO.

Christians constantly remind one another in some kind of weird pretzel logic that any outcome can be viewed as an answer to prayer. Prayer granted: god favors you. Prayer denied: god is testing you. Unable to determine whether your prayer's been answered: god's mysterious. God has a plan for you, but is it simple and linear no matter what you do or has god set up some kind of choose-your-adventure/flow chart thingie? Inquiring minds will never know, but my opinion is that Christians pray less to influence events and more for fear of what god may do to people who don't pray.

Bingo; any outcome is some proof that god has a plan to these people.

If you pray and something good happens, god has blessed you. If something bad happens, then it's a test/god is in control/it's part of his plan. If your loved one is healed, god has healed them; if they die, they are in a better place.

It's so much bullshit.
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