Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
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03-04-2017, 12:43 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
Bucky Ball Wrote:"I am the resurrection and the life;
whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,
and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
Do you believe this?"
She said to him, "Yes, Lord.
I have come to believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God,
the one who is coming into the world."
I see you highlighted this. I am not sure what your point is.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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03-04-2017, 01:04 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
EvolutionKills Wrote:If prayer has no ability to do anything more than make you feel better, it's just as powerful as talking to yourself in your head. Praying to god is just talking to yourself, but pretending that there is someone else listening to your thoughts besides yourself. It belies a creepy acceptance of authoritarianism.
I didn't say that it has only one ability - to make me feel better.
EvolutionKills Wrote:But according to the Bible, and even supposedly by Jesus' own words, God can and does answer prayer.
This is why I said that God guides me(answers my questions)

EvolutionKills Wrote:Prayers only ever seem to heal those who already believe,
I don't believe this.

EvolutionKills Wrote:Prayer never regrows amputated limbs.
Jesus said: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
When I read these words I ask myself a question: "Did Jesus give this promise meaning only this life? or His promise extends to life after mortality?"

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03-04-2017, 01:49 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(03-04-2017 01:04 AM)Alla Wrote:  
EvolutionKills Wrote:If prayer has no ability to do anything more than make you feel better, it's just as powerful as talking to yourself in your head. Praying to god is just talking to yourself, but pretending that there is someone else listening to your thoughts besides yourself. It belies a creepy acceptance of authoritarianism.
I didn't say that it has only one ability - to make me feel better.
EvolutionKills Wrote:But according to the Bible, and even supposedly by Jesus' own words, God can and does answer prayer.
This is why I said that God guides me(answers my questions)

EvolutionKills Wrote:Prayers only ever seem to heal those who already believe,
I don't believe this.

EvolutionKills Wrote:Prayer never regrows amputated limbs.
Jesus said: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
When I read these words I ask myself a question: "Did Jesus give this promise meaning only this life? or His promise extends to life after mortality?"


One has to wonder why you need to bend over and contort yourself so much to make your professed beliefs match reality. How come a plain reading of the text doesn't actually mean what it says it means?

Jesus says that god answers prayer, that prayer can move mountains. Now either prayer moves mountains or it does not. We know from experience that prayer cannot move mountains, and thus believers need to read meaning into that text that simply isn't there. It needs to be read metaphorically or allegorically, because the simplest answer (that's it's bullshit) is not an acceptable answer to those looking to reinforce their preferred belief.


A real god, who both cared and had the power to do anything, wouldn't need their follows to make excuses to cover for their impotence.


Cause of you want to open up the can of worms that is textual criticism, where we can show how nothing attributed to Jesus can rightly be attested to anybody, be my guest.

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03-04-2017, 03:05 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 01:40 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Mmmkay. How does prayer work with free will and the big ol "plan" that christians claim their god has.[...]
Something's amiss here. Dodgy

What's amiss is god ability to make a good plan:

[Image: IJUKG91.jpg]

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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03-04-2017, 06:36 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(03-04-2017 12:43 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Bucky Ball Wrote:"I am the resurrection and the life;
whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,
and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
Do you believe this?"
She said to him, "Yes, Lord.
I have come to believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God,
the one who is coming into the world."
I see you highlighted this. I am not sure what your point is.

The POINT is, it reflects a highly developed theological system which the church had from decades, if not centuries later. There is no way Jesus said that. 1. It's pious FRAUD, and, 2., if they can make THAT up, what part of it is not made up ? Your reading comprehension is very poor, and the fact that you can say the nonsense you do with a straight fact is hilarious, ("god this and god that" *as if* you actually knew anything about anythng). Laugh out load

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-04-2017, 07:07 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
Gods plan - Do nothing
Prayer - "please do something"

Free will - we are able to do something
Two hands doing something are always more effective than two hands clasped in prayer appealing to nothing.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-04-2017, 11:10 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(03-04-2017 07:07 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Gods plan - Do nothing
Prayer - "please do something"

Free will - we are able to do something
Two hands doing something are always more effective than two hands clasped in prayer appealing to nothing.

Adding to the dilemma of free will is an omniscient god who knows in advance all choices humans will make and who will end up in eternal hell. He knows this even before he begins the creation process. He knows who will pray and what they will pray for. He knows everything. Yet he went ahead and created humans anyway. To me this is premeditated torture.

I actually had a Christian tell me that god suspended his omniscience while in the creation process so he wouldn't know at that time that Adam would eat the sinful apple. and people would roast in hell. So god made himself stupid while creating everyone. Facepalm

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-04-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(03-04-2017 11:10 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I actually had a Christian tell me that god suspended his omniscience while in the creation process so he wouldn't know at that time that Adam would eat the sinful apple. and people would roast in hell. So god made himself stupid while creating everyone. Facepalm




Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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03-04-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(02-04-2017 08:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "I am the resurrection and the life;
whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,
and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.

I always figured that just meant "Be here now." But I'm an old hippie who's had a lot of recreation.

#sigh
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03-04-2017, 12:33 PM
RE: Prayer, free will and "god has a plan"
(03-04-2017 12:39 AM)Alla Wrote:  
mythslayer Wrote:So basically "ask me for anything.....as long as I want it to be done".
Yes.

mythslayer Wrote:So when one asks to be healed of cancer, free from the pain and suffering, and god refuses, then that must mean god wants that person to suffer and die.
It is part of God's plan that we all can have an opportunity to LEARN both GOOD and EVIL - suffering and death including. We all suffer we all have to die.

You know god's plan?
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