Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
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30-05-2016, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2016 10:27 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
(30-05-2016 06:16 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The bloke is obviously delusional and/or mentally disturbed in some way. To stand in a public place and blatantly broadcast racist and homophobic opinions through a loud-hailer would in all likelihood in Australia result in a police arrest on the grounds of vilification, disturbing the peace, or inciting violence. I can't believe that nobody—especially one of the waiting parents—didn't call 999, considering he was ranting for such a lengthy period. Or is that sort of public behaviour acceptable in America?

He was lucky someone didn't air-condition his gut with a 9mm.

Not only is that type of behavior legal in the US, the Constitution prohibits legislatures from making it illegal, be they federal, state, or local. Making this illegal would require a Constitutional amendment to allow it to be made illegal, and doing so would require legal surgery right next to the jugular vein of a lot of the protections that allow atheism to exist in this country and prevent Christians from taking it over in entirety.

Any opinion -- and ESPECIALLY religious opinion -- is open for public airing and protected as freedom of speech. There are a few limitations, but I don't think any apply here:

1) Threatening or menacing is often illegal.
2) Inciting to violence is illegal.
3) Sometimes the specific language with which the opinion is expressed is illegal under obscenity laws, though those have mostly been struck down by the courts.
4) Creating a public hazard through speech can be illegal. The typical example is shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater.
5) Outright acts of fraud, filing false reports or documents with authorities, perjury, and so on.
6) Municipalities can put legislation in place regarding disturbing the peace (ie, no loud screaming during sleeping hours) or the use of amplifiers voice (such as with bullhorns)
7) Access to various locations and events may be restricted. You might have no right to physically be there, or you might be allowed there only under a presumption of civil conduct. This is why "protestors" keep getting escorted out of Target stores and why priests can't come on to public school campuses to proselytize.

As for him getting ventilated with a 9mm? As a general proposition in America, the people most enthusiastic about gun ownership and the people most vocally eager to employ their guns on the social and political front are on the same side of the culture wars as the hate-douches.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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30-05-2016, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2016 12:22 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
(30-05-2016 04:57 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(30-05-2016 02:47 AM)Vosur Wrote:  "I don't agree with sexual assault but seriously you go around wearing slutty clothes meant to be enticing you're asking for it."

Sure sounds like victim blaming to me. Consider

There are similarities but the cases aren't identical. Unlike the rape victims, this fellow was advocating the violence that he was inevitably the victim of. He was wearing an extremely provocative sign and he wasn't simply asking for it, he was promoting it. He simply never expected to be the recipient of the hatred that he was advocating for. He was held down to his own standards, which sadly means that some fool stooped to his level.

I agree, both men were wrong, the preacher has the right to say what he wants but he was being directly confrontational, saying racist, homophobic, sexist things that were meant to incite hate and when he was asked about his beliefs he was antagonistic. When he was asked to leave, he refused and hurled insults. I wish the man with the bat would've just realized he's dealing with a fool but he let him get to his head and his emotions got the best of him.

I don't think it's fair to compare this to rape since that's more about power than sex anyway and it doesn't matter how a woman dresses or behaves, they can still be assaulted simply for being a woman and doing nothing but walking the street or dancing at a party, it can happen at any time. This man was out and yelling about hateful things, yes he has that right but he knows it will piss people off, he knows he's promoting this kind of hatefulness himself, he got it right back, he was pulling them down to his level.

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30-05-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
(30-05-2016 10:24 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Not only is that type of behavior legal in the US, the Constitution prohibits legislatures from making it illegal, be they federal, state, or local. Making this illegal would require a Constitutional amendment to allow it to be made illegal, and doing so would require legal surgery right next to the jugular vein of a lot of the protections that allow atheism to exist in this country and prevent Christians from taking it over in entirety.

Any opinion -- and ESPECIALLY religious opinion -- is open for public airing and protected as freedom of speech. There are a few limitations, but I don't think any apply here:

1) Threatening or menacing is often illegal.
2) Inciting to violence is illegal.

There's a decent argument that "You deserve rape" fits the first two.
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30-05-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
(30-05-2016 01:01 PM)I Am Wrote:  
(30-05-2016 10:24 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Not only is that type of behavior legal in the US, the Constitution prohibits legislatures from making it illegal, be they federal, state, or local. Making this illegal would require a Constitutional amendment to allow it to be made illegal, and doing so would require legal surgery right next to the jugular vein of a lot of the protections that allow atheism to exist in this country and prevent Christians from taking it over in entirety.

Any opinion -- and ESPECIALLY religious opinion -- is open for public airing and protected as freedom of speech. There are a few limitations, but I don't think any apply here:

1) Threatening or menacing is often illegal.
2) Inciting to violence is illegal.

There's a decent argument that "You deserve rape" fits the first two.

threat
noun
A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done

incite
verb
Urge or persuade (someone) to act in a violent or unlawful way

An example of a threat would be "If you don't cover yourself right now, I'm going to rape you."
An example of an incitement would be "I'll pay $100 to every guy who rapes that girl."

"You deserve rape" is a statement of opinion because it conveys a point of view rather than outlining negative consequences for (not) taking certain actions. To be honest, I'm more disgusted by everyone in this thread who is advocating violence and censorship against people who are using their first amendment rights than I am at the people who are saying all this horrible stuff. You know what people like you are called? The Regressive Left.

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30-05-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
(30-05-2016 01:01 PM)I Am Wrote:  
(30-05-2016 10:24 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Not only is that type of behavior legal in the US, the Constitution prohibits legislatures from making it illegal, be they federal, state, or local. Making this illegal would require a Constitutional amendment to allow it to be made illegal, and doing so would require legal surgery right next to the jugular vein of a lot of the protections that allow atheism to exist in this country and prevent Christians from taking it over in entirety.

Any opinion -- and ESPECIALLY religious opinion -- is open for public airing and protected as freedom of speech. There are a few limitations, but I don't think any apply here:

1) Threatening or menacing is often illegal.
2) Inciting to violence is illegal.

There's a decent argument that "You deserve rape" fits the first two.

One could argue that in a general sense, but it doesn't fit the legal definition. (Of course, lawyers could argue it anyway, because lawyers.)
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30-05-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
In a civil society we also have manners, a code of conduct on how to behave in public.

Shouting at teenagers across the street from their school using a bullhorn is not a very good use of your right to free speech.

Handling out pamphlets to people who would like to read them is a more civil way to behave in public.

The smack from the bat is more about modifying his public behavior than infringing on his free speech.
His right to free speech is still guaranteed, but his method will need to change.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-05-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
By the way, since I haven't weighed in yet? This guy was despicable, but going after him in the face with a lethal weapon was way, WAY over the line. I have yet to see a single argument made about how this guy had it coming or how he needed to learn a lesson that could not be accomplished equally well by hitting him in the face with, say, a cream pie. Yeah it's still assault and yeah that's technically interfering with his free speech, and I'm not saying I'd back such a move either, but at least the moral debate would be nuanced. I mean COME ON. How does a bat compare favorably?
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30-05-2016, 02:38 PM
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
Airhorns. Always carry airhorns. When encountering assholes like this one, give it a quick blast (a few feet away, as right in the ear is probably illegal). A few feet away will be loud enough. You don't need to crack somebody's skull open. Just make them shit themselves.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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30-05-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
(30-05-2016 05:44 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Dont tell me he didnt know what he was doing.
Arent x-ians watching hollywood blockbusters in the US?

While i dont think a hit with a baseball bat was necessary, i wouldnt mind if he had been slapped in his fucking face...several times. Being slapped once in a while helps to stay in touch with reality Smile

[Image: bruce_willis_hate.jpg]

We should all know what people shouldn't do.
But we should all know, by now, people are gonna, regardless.

You feel like holding up a hateful sign, you might wanna pick the location for it with care.
The U.S. Constitution isn't a magic force field capable of stopping bullets. Undecided Or baseball bats.

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30-05-2016, 03:12 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2016 03:27 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: Preacher hit in head with baseball bat
(30-05-2016 02:40 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(30-05-2016 05:44 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Dont tell me he didnt know what he was doing.
Arent x-ians watching hollywood blockbusters in the US?

While i dont think a hit with a baseball bat was necessary, i wouldnt mind if he had been slapped in his fucking face...several times. Being slapped once in a while helps to stay in touch with reality Smile

[Image: bruce_willis_hate.jpg]

We should all know what people shouldn't do.
But we should all know, by now, people are gonna, regardless.

You feel like holding up a hateful sign, you might wanna pick the location for it with care.
The U.S. Constitution isn't a magic force field capable of stopping bullets. Undecided Or baseball bats.

I totally agree, some basic understanding of human nature is important and the man with the bat kept saying "These kids..." he was on the defensive, it's basic human instinct to want to protect kids and he kept asking him to leave, the preacher refused...really they're both wrong and need to learn some self-restraint, it's not ok to go around raping women who dress a certain way and it's not cool to hit someone who's clearly unbalanced saying dumb shit in the street. I just feel like every rape can't be avoided if the attacker doesn't have any morality, it's never the victim's fault, it's on the rapist to stop their actions, this situation could've been avoided though. The preacher was warned to leave several times, he refused, he was attacked, it was still wrong.

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