Precognition Again
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16-07-2012, 08:31 AM
RE: Precognition Again
I have never had a dream in which there was not some piece of my reality within it. So it is not surprising when I dream and my wife is there or I am talking to my sister-in-law or trying to fly. It is also common for me to have dreams when I am incredibly stressed but not any other time. I am usually so focused on a particular aspect of what is going on around me that I obsess about it and have a dream related to it. Or I tend to have dreams when I don't sleep well when I am in a new place. How come my dreams never turn out to be manifestations of some future event? Do you posses mental powers I do not?


I find that unlikely and illogical, not because I am an atheist and it would disprove my worldview, but because I am a scientist and a rationalist and it goes against logic and reality. Why would connections between dreams and reality prove a god?

How many dreams do you have that never provide any predictive power? You gave 4 examples above, but I assume you are >30 years old, which means you have had at minimum 10,950 nights to dream and only 4 of these nights have produced vague dreams that seem predictive after the fact?

The most vivid dreams I have ever had included me jumping over my neighbor's house and there was one where I wrestled midgets. I tried the next day to jump over my neighbor's house and just ended up jumping in the middle of their yard no more than a foot off the ground. As for the midgets, I still want to wrestle one but I have never encountered a midget in a wrestling ring like in my dream.

I do actually have one other dream that I had when I was 4 and again when I was ~21. I had a dream that I woke up and there was a huge spider on my face and I could only see through its legs. I have arachnophobia so the result was 4 year-old me waking up screaming bloody murder. I had the same dream while in college (maybe high school), only this time I realized it for what it was, my hand was resting on my face and caused me to think my fingers were the legs of a spider. I got a good chuckle out of that and still do.

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16-07-2012, 08:32 AM
RE: Precognition Again
(16-07-2012 07:36 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(16-07-2012 07:14 AM)Egor Wrote:  What about the reports just above this post from people who are apparently intelligent and have no reason to lie to you?

1) Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Although such can be used as the basis of rigorous experimentation, when it has, the results have been inconclusive at best.

2) Seems these people have every reason to lie to themselves. Ange at least says "I don't know;" you, however, add 1 + 1 and come up with i, as usual. What is so dissatisfying about life and reality that you need this supernatural crutch, I'm forced to wonder. There's more evidence for non-locality and electromagnetic communication than there is for precognition. For one, the interplay of chemical context and simulation of mind of another in mind may very well inform the superorganism of a unit's dysfunction across the eternal now. For another, these reports only surface when an anticipated event is realized - which is a very definite condition of now and not future - and said individuals likely discount fifty misses for every one hit and call it supernatural. Stoopidnatural, I call it.

3) Intelligence only allows for more creative delusions.
Indeed. There's a good reason why anecdotal stories and memories are not considered reliable evidence. This has been studies extensively and the results are conclusive. There are various fantastic books on this subject including Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World." But for someone like Egor the illusion of certainty and cosmic importance overrides these studies.

It feels better to think that you're special then to deconstruct your own memories and thoughts and recognize them for what they are; unreliable at best (all of our thoughts and memories are unreliable, not just Egor's).

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16-07-2012, 08:45 AM
 
RE: Precognition Again
(16-07-2012 07:36 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

That's an insane statement. You call it evidence and then say it's not evidence.

But of course it is. After all, if you don't accept anecdotal evidence, then you have to start disbelieving about 90% of everything you believe. Have you ever been to Moscow? Have you ever been to Farmington, New Mexico? Do you believe the big bang occurred? Do you think they found the Higgs boson (or something like it) at CERN? Have you ever seen a cow milked? Are you sure that's where milk comes from? How about Neptune? Do you believe that planet exists?

If you are a religious atheist; you have to disbelieve in precognition--even if you experience it. If you are a real atheist, precognition supports your view.

Because, if there is only God and nothing else, which is logically the way it must be, then precognition is simply higher knowledge breaking through the illusion of this physical world when our physical senses are dulled. It would be expected. If there is only God and nothing else, then there really is no God, because God can't have a God. That's real atheism

Religious atheism simply replaces the Ancient Greek notions of God (which is also the form of the Christian god) with "Science." And in the religious atheist mind, "Science" is just as amorphous as the concept of God is to a Christian; it is the object of your worship. You have your morality system, which is pretty much a mix of libertarian and Wiccan, and you have your prophets dead and alive (Dawkins, Hitchens, et. al.). You want to be recognized by the First Amendment and have ministers in the military. You have your religious symbols; and you desire power in the grade school classroom. Furthermore, you would impose your beliefs on others if you had the power to do so. You are religious.
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16-07-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: Precognition Again
(16-07-2012 08:45 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(16-07-2012 07:36 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

That's an insane statement. You call it evidence and then say it's not evidence.
Yes, he was insane for not putting "anecdotal evidence" in quotes.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-07-2012, 08:53 AM
RE: Precognition Again
What's this was insane stuff? Big Grin

And as usual, big E only chews on the fluff he can dispute, and ignores the protein. Tongue

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16-07-2012, 09:14 AM
 
RE: Precognition Again
(16-07-2012 08:31 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I have never had a dream in which there was not some piece of my reality within it. So it is not surprising when I dream and my wife is there or I am talking to my sister-in-law or trying to fly. It is also common for me to have dreams when I am incredibly stressed but not any other time. I am usually so focused on a particular aspect of what is going on around me that I obsess about it and have a dream related to it. Or I tend to have dreams when I don't sleep well when I am in a new place. How come my dreams never turn out to be manifestations of some future event? Do you posses mental powers I do not?

I must be broken in some way. Precognition is higher knowledge breaking through the illusion produced by the physical world and the five senses that perceive it. Precognition is not supposed to happen. It's also fairly useless. Except in one instance for me:

I had a dream we had a terrible auto accident over the Hoover Dam. I told my wife about it, and I was anxious because it seemed like a precognitive dream. It just seemed like one. I decided the solution was that as soon as we were ready to pull out of our RV spot in Las Vegas that we stop and wait 15 minutes. She agreed. We waited.

When we got to the dam it was midnight. We stopped to look at a map, and as we were looking a car pulled up to us from the direction of the dam and said the road ahead is closed for repairs. So, we turned around and went another way into Arizona. Who knows what would have happened if we had gotten there 15 minutes sooner. We never would have met that car, that's for sure. It was the only other car around. Who knows? Maybe that car would have come slamming into the back of us as we sat there trying to figure out how to back up from the closed road.


Quote:I find that unlikely and illogical, not because I am an atheist and it would disprove my worldview, but because I am a scientist and a rationalist and it goes against logic and reality. Why would connections between dreams and reality prove a god?

Quantum effects go against logic. And connections between dreams and reality don't prove a god. There is no god.

Quote:How many dreams do you have that never provide any predictive power? You gave 4 examples above, but I assume you are >30 years old, which means you have had at minimum 10,950 nights to dream and only 4 of these nights have produced vague dreams that seem predictive after the fact?

Who cares? Some dreams are precognitive and most aren't.

Quote:The most vivid dreams I have ever had included me jumping over my neighbor's house and there was one where I wrestled midgets. I tried the next day to jump over my neighbor's house and just ended up jumping in the middle of their yard no more than a foot off the ground. As for the midgets, I still want to wrestle one but I have never encountered a midget in a wrestling ring like in my dream.

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Quote:I do actually have one other dream that I had when I was 4 and again when I was ~21. I had a dream that I woke up and there was a huge spider on my face and I could only see through its legs. I have arachnophobia so the result was 4 year-old me waking up screaming bloody murder. I had the same dream while in college (maybe high school), only this time I realized it for what it was, my hand was resting on my face and caused me to think my fingers were the legs of a spider. I got a good chuckle out of that and still do.

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16-07-2012, 09:23 AM
RE: Precognition Again
(16-07-2012 08:45 AM)Egor Wrote:  Because, if there is only God and nothing else...

That's not a bad idea; however, anthropomorphism is.

(16-07-2012 08:45 AM)Egor Wrote:  You are religious.

When it comes to that dang Gwynnies... Heart

I'm not likely to accept precognition, not because I'm dogmatic, but rather because I have found other, more satisfying explanations.

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16-07-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Precognition Again
I once had a dream that I was a huge flesh-covered snake rolling a jelly-donut down a hill. I believe it to be precognitive, but I'm still waiting for my donut.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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16-07-2012, 09:38 AM
RE: Precognition Again
(16-07-2012 08:45 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(16-07-2012 07:36 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

That's an insane statement. You call it evidence and then say it's not evidence.

But of course it is. After all, if you don't accept anecdotal evidence, then you have to start disbelieving about 90% of everything you believe. Have you ever been to Moscow? Have you ever been to Farmington, New Mexico? Do you believe the big bang occurred? Do you think they found the Higgs boson (or something like it) at CERN? Have you ever seen a cow milked? Are you sure that's where milk comes from? How about Neptune? Do you believe that planet exists?

If you are a religious atheist; you have to disbelieve in precognition--even if you experience it. If you are a real atheist, precognition supports your view.

Because, if there is only God and nothing else, which is logically the way it must be, then precognition is simply higher knowledge breaking through the illusion of this physical world when our physical senses are dulled. It would be expected. If there is only God and nothing else, then there really is no God, because God can't have a God. That's real atheism

Religious atheism simply replaces the Ancient Greek notions of God (which is also the form of the Christian god) with "Science." And in the religious atheist mind, "Science" is just as amorphous as the concept of God is to a Christian; it is the object of your worship. You have your morality system, which is pretty much a mix of libertarian and Wiccan, and you have your prophets dead and alive (Dawkins, Hitchens, et. al.). You want to be recognized by the First Amendment and have ministers in the military. You have your religious symbols; and you desire power in the grade school classroom. Furthermore, you would impose your beliefs on others if you had the power to do so. You are religious.

What is a religious atheist to you?

To me it's a Buddhist.

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16-07-2012, 09:38 AM
RE: Precognition Again
Erx, you have an unhealthy fascination with your snake. Big Grin

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