Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
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13-02-2013, 08:46 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2013 08:53 AM by Zat.)
Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
In a poem I posted on "Why god made so many idiots" I used the following two stanzas:

Eat and be eaten,
that’s the commandment,
obeyed by all of his creatures:
the lion rips the throat of the zebra,
a pack of wolf tears a deer apart,
the fox devours the rabbit,
The cat ‘plays’ with the mouse,
preying mantis munches on butteflies,
venus flytrap digests insects,
humans, on top of the food chain
kill, use, torture them all,
including their own kind.

It would have been nothing
to the ‘omnipotent’ ‘father’
to base his design of all of us
on photosynthesis,
but he liked the idea of
pain, fear and suffering,
probably as a form of
divine entertainment.

It would be interesting to see how believers explain god's idea of inventing predation, instead of photosynthesis for all living things.

He is supposedly omnipotent, he could have done both just as easily.

Photosynthesis is beautiful and efficient.

Predation is cruel, barbaric, sadistic and totally inefficient.

But it is fun to watch, I guess. Angry
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13-02-2013, 09:02 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
1. Predation existed after the flood and is resultant from the Fall of Eden. Genesis 9 talks about this, for one instance.
2. if you don't like predation, go march for gazelles! How about marching on Washington, DC and demanding that lions stop eating gazelles? You'll be a laughing stock for daring to suggest that the Darwinian natural order is cruel and unusual... yet humans complain all the time when other humans act "badly". That's fine for Christians, but when naturalists do it, it's awkward, wouldn't you agree?
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13-02-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:02 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  1. Predation existed after the flood and is resultant from the Fall of Eden.
...
What has that got to do with zebras, rabbits, mice,..... -- what have they done to deserve it?

Their fear, pain and suffering is OK with the almighty?

And, before you bring it up: I am a vegetarian.
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13-02-2013, 09:09 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
Predation has its uses, though. It acts as a means of population control which constitutes a part of natural selection as well. I do not think it is "inefficient" in all honesty. Predation limits local populations and improves the gene pool, for example. When predators hunt prey long enough, it gets to a point where there is insufficient food so the predators start dying off, allowing the prey population to rebuild. Once their numbers build up sufficiently, the predator population will, again, start hunting these prey which rebuilds their population too. This cycle just repeats. It keeps all population sizes in check, really. I actually watched a really fascinating documentary about this the other day. I'll try to dig it up.

Look at humans today. We are severely overpopulating this earth. We're 7 billion strong now and only growing further. If I was to hazard a guess, unless we find a way to retain our consciousness in, perhaps, some kind of artificial form, we will probably be the cause of our very own destruction.

I just don't think using predation as an argument against God carries much weight. This is my own opinion, though.

Oh and for the record, I do love photosynthesis too Big Grin

Regards,
Lucius

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
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13-02-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:02 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  1. Predation existed after the flood and is resultant from the Fall of Eden. Genesis 9 talks about this, for one instance.
2. if you don't like predation, go march for gazelles! How about marching on Washington, DC and demanding that lions stop eating gazelles? You'll be a laughing stock for daring to suggest that the Darwinian natural order is cruel and unusual... yet humans complain all the time when other humans act "badly". That's fine for Christians, but when naturalists do it, it's awkward, wouldn't you agree?


Since there was no flood and there was no Eden, you'll have to come up with a different explanation.

Try evolution. That works.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-02-2013, 09:12 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
Humans have a law against cruelty to animals.

Why didn't his merciful, all loving almighty include it in the design and in the 10 Commandments?
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13-02-2013, 09:14 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:09 AM)Lucius Wrote:  I just don't think using predation as an argument against God carries much weight. This is my own opinion, though.

Oh and for the record, I do love photosynthesis too Big Grin


John W. Loftus uses the suffering of the animal world as an argument against God. Chapter 9, The Darwinian Problem of Evil, in 'The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails'.

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13-02-2013, 09:15 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:09 AM)Lucius Wrote:  I just don't think using predation as an argument against God carries much weight. This is my own opinion, though.
Oh and for the record, I do love photosynthesis too Big Grin

The question was: why didn't god base his 'intelligent design' on photosynthesis for ALL living creatures? It would have been a lot more intelligent: efficient and beautiful.

This was a question to those who believe in the myth.

For those of us who take evolution for granted, it is a mute question.
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13-02-2013, 09:17 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 09:09 AM)Lucius Wrote:  I just don't think using predation as an argument against God carries much weight. This is my own opinion, though.



Oh and for the record, I do love photosynthesis too Big Grin





John W. Loftus uses the suffering of the animal world as an argument against God. Chapter 9, The Darwinian Problem of Evil, in 'The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails'.

So he may, that does not necessarily mean I have to just agree with it. I will go read it this evening, however. Thanks for the reference.

Regards,
Lucius

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
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13-02-2013, 09:18 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:15 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 09:09 AM)Lucius Wrote:  I just don't think using predation as an argument against God carries much weight. This is my own opinion, though.
Oh and for the record, I do love photosynthesis too Big Grin

The question was: why didn't god base his 'intelligent design' on photosynthesis for ALL living creatures? It would have been a lot more intelligent: efficient and beautiful.

This was a question to those who believe in the myth.

For those of us who take evolution for granted, it is a mute question.


Fair enough.

Regards,
Lucius

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
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