Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
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13-02-2013, 09:21 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 09:02 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  1. Predation existed after the flood and is resultant from the Fall of Eden. Genesis 9 talks about this, for one instance.
2. if you don't like predation, go march for gazelles! How about marching on Washington, DC and demanding that lions stop eating gazelles? You'll be a laughing stock for daring to suggest that the Darwinian natural order is cruel and unusual... yet humans complain all the time when other humans act "badly". That's fine for Christians, but when naturalists do it, it's awkward, wouldn't you agree?


Since there was no flood and there was no Eden, you'll have to come up with a different explanation.

Try evolution. That works.
Pretty much this.


I asked my mom what her religiously-inspired excuse for predation was. I also asked why scorpions are built with lethal stingers and snakes with deadly venom. The best she could come up with is "I believe those things came about after Adam and Eve sinned. (God) made them develop predatory skills and defenses to accomodate for the imperfect, sinful world that had begun."

So basically, a lion's digestive system is specifically designed to eat other animals because some rib-woman made a dirt-guy eat an apple. As I dug a little deeper, it turns out that's why tornados occur and why stars collapse.

Seems legit. Drinking Beverage

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13-02-2013, 09:24 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
Before the flood, T-rex used his teeth for coconuts and lions ate...well...I don't know what the hell they ate. Just remember, those animals were intelligently designed to process meat but instead ate only plants (never mind the fact that plants still have to die since they are also alive...)

If you want a good example of why that is such bullshit, just look at how shitty Panda Bears are. Dodgy What a stupid animal. It adopted a vegetarian diet at some point during its evolution, but has the digestive tract of a carnivore. Meaning that it can barely get any nutrition from the bamboo and has to eat constantly in order to gain any nutrition. Does not leave a lot of time for other things...like reproducing. Just let them go extinct already. Stupid animal. Angry

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13-02-2013, 09:42 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:24 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If you want a good example of why that is such bullshit, just look at how shitty Panda Bears are. Dodgy What a stupid animal. It adopted a vegetarian diet at some point during its evolution, but has the digestive tract of a carnivore. Meaning that it can barely get any nutrition from the bamboo and has to eat constantly in order to gain any nutrition. Does not leave a lot of time for other things...like reproducing. Just let them go extinct already. Stupid animal. Angry
lol. I'm using this next time a creationist starts babbling about ID. Thumbsup

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13-02-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:42 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 09:24 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If you want a good example of why that is such bullshit, just look at how shitty Panda Bears are. Dodgy What a stupid animal. It adopted a vegetarian diet at some point during its evolution, but has the digestive tract of a carnivore. Meaning that it can barely get any nutrition from the bamboo and has to eat constantly in order to gain any nutrition. Does not leave a lot of time for other things...like reproducing. Just let them go extinct already. Stupid animal. Angry
lol. I'm using this next time a creationist starts babbling about ID. Thumbsup
You can also use the rabbit



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13-02-2013, 09:56 AM
 
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 08:46 AM)Zat Wrote:  In a poem I posted on "Why god made so many idiots" I used the following two stanzas:

Eat and be eaten,
that’s the commandment,
obeyed by all of his creatures:
the lion rips the throat of the zebra,
a pack of wolf tears a deer apart,
the fox devours the rabbit,
The cat ‘plays’ with the mouse,
preying mantis munches on butteflies,
venus flytrap digests insects,
humans, on top of the food chain
kill, use, torture them all,
including their own kind.

It would have been nothing
to the ‘omnipotent’ ‘father’
to base his design of all of us
on photosynthesis,
but he liked the idea of
pain, fear and suffering,
probably as a form of
divine entertainment.

It would be interesting to see how believers explain god's idea of inventing predation, instead of photosynthesis for all living things.

He is supposedly omnipotent, he could have done both just as easily.

Photosynthesis is beautiful and efficient.

Predation is cruel, barbaric, sadistic and totally inefficient.

But it is fun to watch, I guess. Angry

So...you're upset about how God designed things but you're an atheist vegetarian, right? If that is the case, then you don't need an answer to your question. No

When you admit you believe in God, but are angry at God, then I'll be glad to answer your question. But for now, all double-minded like you are, an answer is utterly wasted on you.
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13-02-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
That's as fancy an evasion as I have ever seen.

Since others on this thread asked the same question (and challenged the 'answers' given by your comrades), you can answer them instead.

So, what have you got to say to them?
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13-02-2013, 10:03 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 09:56 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 08:46 AM)Zat Wrote:  In a poem I posted on "Why god made so many idiots" I used the following two stanzas:

Eat and be eaten,
that’s the commandment,
obeyed by all of his creatures:
the lion rips the throat of the zebra,
a pack of wolf tears a deer apart,
the fox devours the rabbit,
The cat ‘plays’ with the mouse,
preying mantis munches on butteflies,
venus flytrap digests insects,
humans, on top of the food chain
kill, use, torture them all,
including their own kind.

It would have been nothing
to the ‘omnipotent’ ‘father’
to base his design of all of us
on photosynthesis,
but he liked the idea of
pain, fear and suffering,
probably as a form of
divine entertainment.

It would be interesting to see how believers explain god's idea of inventing predation, instead of photosynthesis for all living things.

He is supposedly omnipotent, he could have done both just as easily.

Photosynthesis is beautiful and efficient.

Predation is cruel, barbaric, sadistic and totally inefficient.

But it is fun to watch, I guess. Angry

So...you're upset about how God designed things but you're an atheist vegetarian, right? If that is the case, then you don't need an answer to your question. No

When you admit you believe in God, but are angry at God, then I'll be glad to answer your question. But for now, all double-minded like you are, an answer is utterly wasted on you.
Egor, thats not a very good recruitment tactic...

Arguing with a Christian is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. You can be the greatest player in the world, yet the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut away triumphantly.
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13-02-2013, 10:04 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
Quote:What has that got to do with zebras, rabbits, mice,..... -- what have they done to deserve it?

Their fear, pain and suffering is OK with the almighty?

And, before you bring it up: I am a vegetarian.
1. What have they done to deserve what? They don't deserve anything, naturalist. They just are. Kill or be killed. Humans and other animals alike. That's your worldview. Or did ethics for the natural world also result via Evolution?
2. Deserve what? Pain upon being eaten or watching their offspring eaten? Pain is a conditioned/evolved response to stimuli. The pain is supposed to be the result of selection informing the stupid beast that it is being eaten--and to run. It should be grateful for the pain from a naturalist's perspective.
3. How do you know I'm not a vegetarian or vegan?
4. How do you know plants don't feel pain? I've seen a number of studies that are compelling regarding stimuli and plant life when plucked or cut? Why not be a Jain and show your true commitment?
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13-02-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
(13-02-2013 10:04 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:What has that got to do with zebras, rabbits, mice,..... -- what have they done to deserve it?

Their fear, pain and suffering is OK with the almighty?

And, before you bring it up: I am a vegetarian.
1. What have they done to deserve what? They don't deserve anything, naturalist. They just are. Kill or be killed. Humans and other animals alike. That's your worldview. Or did ethics for the natural world also result via Evolution?
2. Deserve what? Pain upon being eaten or watching their offspring eaten? Pain is a conditioned/evolved response to stimuli. The pain is supposed to be the result of selection informing the stupid beast that it is being eaten--and to run. It should be grateful for the pain from a naturalist's perspective.
3. How do you know I'm not a vegetarian or vegan?
4. How do you know plants don't feel pain? I've seen a number of studies that are compelling regarding stimuli and plant life when plucked or cut? Why not be a Jain and show your true commitment?
Sounds all well and fine.

...From our perspective.

We're asking for YOUR perspective.

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13-02-2013, 10:11 AM
RE: Predation in 'Intelligent Design" ???
I've read that story!
Everything in Eden was hunky-dory; the lion was molesting the lamb and getting away with it; angels were happily tootling away in heaven; Adam was busy naming all the fish after land-animals because he had no imagination and nothing more fun to do. Then the serpent asked Eve out to lunch and she noticed her own genitals and made the mistake of calling Adam's attention to them - and all hell literally broke loose. Rained angels for a day and night - anyway, long enough to make wives for A&E's sons, which is just as well, 'coz they would have had to marry chimps, else. So God is really pissed, and they're all running for their lives, except Adam keeps glancing over at Eve's mammaries every seven seconds and he doesn't even know she's hidden a couple of apple seeds in the pocket of her figleaf. (Yes, and she invented the handkerchief, as well - little-known fact.) So the lion got hungry and light-headed with all that unaccustomed running and accidentally ate the lamb. And the praying mantis saw that it was good and ate her own mate and changed the spelling of her name to its modern form. And that's even before Noah start constructing a boat in the middle of the desert. After the flood, things get really hairy!

You see? Whatever we consider good comes from God. Whatever we don't like is your fault.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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