President Donald Trump
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22-01-2017, 02:40 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
Poe's Law was coined on early atheism discussion boards to state that it's impossible to tell, absent the presence of a "winky face" Wink or other such indicator, whether or not a person was just fucking with them or was really as radical/fundamentalist (usually Christian) as they seemed to be. More generically, it means any time you can't tell if they're being sarcastic, trolling for their own kicks, or really seriously think the things they're saying. Er, typing.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-01-2017, 02:43 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:22 PM)annie123 Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 02:19 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Both my parents had Multiple Sclerosis (mom was dx'd in '72 died in 1988 in a nursing home at the age of 44 -- my father died in 1980) and my son is on the spectrum for autism.

I find your views to be completely repugnant.

But it isn't MY fault this happened to you! Why should I be held responsible for it? That's not fair punishing me for your bad luck!
You know, when I had these sort of arguments with Christians before in the past, I would tell them " well, blame God, he created this !" They really didn't want to hear that. Now you take it out on me also.

"I find your views to be repugnant." Did I say you were not allowed to feel whatever you feel?

You can fuck off now.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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22-01-2017, 02:44 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  First of all, I am sort of a scientist (licensed engineer) , so there is no need to talk down to me.

Did you know that this appeal to authority is known as a fallacy of irrelevance, and is considered a very weak form of debate. I don't care whether you're a burger flipper, or a nuclear physicist, or a house painter when you post on this site. It's your argument that will be judged—not your vocational qualifications.

(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  If that is the case, why do you need things such as Medicare/caid? This is more of a catholic/Jesus thing, isn't it? Provide for the poor and disabled? I disagree with this concept. I believe everyone needs to fend for themselves and I don't really want to pay for other people's healthcare, or expect them to pay for mine.

Nope; it's a humanitarian "thing" exhibited and employed by any compassionate human being. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion. And that you refuse to help the sick or elderly or underprivileged is of course your democratic decision, but it's still antisocial in the eyes of the wider benevolent community.

(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  Global warming: (I am actually an environmental engineer so I have studied things like air pollution in detail). There is no true scientific proof the earth is warming because of man made CO2 emissions. I believe it is a political move of the left to try and steal more money from the U.S. and give it to third world countries. The real polluters are other countries, like China and India.

Ahhh... a card-carrying conspiracy theorist LOL. Anyway: [Per Capita carbon dioxide Emissions]
1. China 6.52t
2. United States 17.62t
3. Russia 12.55t
4. India 1.45t

And total emissions by country? China = 10,540,000kt, the US = 5,334,000kt, India = 2,341,000kt, and Russia = 1,766,000kt.

(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  CO2 is not a pollutant, it is a necessary gas without which all life on earth would die and a very small increase of it (or decrease) is not going to affect the weather.

Uh... what to say LOL. Yes, of course CO2 is "necessary" for life on earth, duh. Did you know that substances such as oxalic acid, caffeine, nicotine, vitamins A and D, formaldehyde, theobromine, and even common sodium chloride—which are all naturally-occurring in your everyday foodstuffs—are toxic. Just as CO2 is in sufficient concentrations. You've obviously not heard the old adage "the poison is in the dose". I'd also like you to cite reference(s) to your claim that a small(?) increase in atmospheric levels of CO2 is "not going to affect the weather".

(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  So , I do not believe the U.S. is responsible to pay for any sort of man made climate change. I support the U.S getting out of the UN for that reason and others.

Why should the US not help to pay for reversing the effects of climate change—considering it's the world's second highest emitter of CO2. And what exactly does the UN have to do with climate change—or is this a straw man? And you do know that the US provides more than 80% of the UN budget don't you? Or do you want to see the UN totally disbanded due to a lack of funding?

(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  I support the second Amendment , you should, especially as an atheist, be allowed to defend yourself (and doesn't it say in the Bible that you should turn the other cheek and not fight back?)

So atheists—in particular—should be armed, but apparently not so much the theists? Why? And as an alleged atheist, why are you quoting biblical scripture to support your claims—very fucking bizarre.

(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  I do not support stealing from some and giving to others (welfare of any kind) , which again goes back to natural selection. Giving to the poor is a RELIGIOUS thing, not an atheist thing imo and one of the reasons I never was a good Christian. I didn't enjoy giving money away.

Oh dear... I'm running out of exclamation marks LOL. Supporting the socially deprived, unemployed, or the disabled with part of your taxes is NOT "stealing". And human compassion has nothing at all to do religion and/or lack of it. If you truly believe that, the your understanding [sic] of theism and atheism is very poorly grounded.

(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  As for Christian politicians: I would rather have them, than the head middle east terrorist we've had for the past 8 years...the lesser evil by far.

Are you serious, or just trolling to get a few nibbles? This has to be the most totally absurd comment I've read here for days. As I said earlier—and this lunatic notion of yours confirms it—you're obviously a conspiracy theorist of the first order. Would you care to tell us your theories about chem-trails, fluoride in drinking water, HAARP, or the Princess Diana 'assassination'?

I'm sorry Annie, but I can't really accept that, firstly, you're a "legitimate" atheist as your opinions reek of sanctimonious Christian morals and dubious religious ethics. Secondly, I get the very strong impression that (assuming for the moment that you're not a troll) you have a very cloistered outlook on the wider world and a very poor understanding of common logic.

If you're going to maintain some sort of regard here, then you need to improve your act. Seriously.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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22-01-2017, 02:44 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2017 03:04 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:35 PM)annie123 Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 02:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  One conclusion you might draw from that is that empathy for those less fortunate is a human characteristic, not a Christian one. Atheism does not require one to shed one's humanity and become a monster.

So I am a monster now, just because I don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare and upkeep? Wow!

No. You're a "monster"* cause you're nazi like in your thinking. I'll give you that you aren't advocating active killing of disabled, but rest of your thought process shown below fits with nazi eugenics theme. It's not something to be proud of I would say.

What's wrong with social Darwinism? Yes packs ( of animals) do take care of each other, but they don't take care of their old, sick or disabled. Those just die.
My thoughts are that if you didn't support old, sick, disabled, you would have a much healthier population that would need much less money for healthcare. It would just be more economic and practical. That's all.



*Troll is kind of a monster too.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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22-01-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 01:33 PM)annie123 Wrote:  To answer some of your questions, since you asked: I would think natural selection would be something atheists believe in. If that is the case, why do you need things such as Medicare/caid?

Caring for those ALREADY alive who are ill and old has NOTHING to do with natural selection.

Quote:I believe everyone needs to fend for themselves and I don't really want to pay for other people's healthcare, or expect them to pay for mine.

The ONLY reason healthcare is in the state it is today, is because resources were combined. You could not afford to pay for ANY of the major surgical procedures out of your own pocket. You have a few hundred thousand to a million to pay a heart surgeon ?

Quote:Global warming: (I am actually an environmental engineer so I have studied things like air pollution in detail).

I seriously doubt that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dio...atmosphere

Quote:I support the second Amendment , you should, especially as an atheist, be allowed to defend yourself ( and doesn't it say in the Bible that you should turn the other cheek and not fight back?)

The availability of guns in the US make the entire society unsafe.

Quote:I do not support stealing from some and giving to others ( welfare of any kind) , which again goes back to natural selection. Giving to the poor is a RELIGIOUS thing, not an atheist thing imo and one of the reasons I never was a good Christian. I didn't enjoy giving money away

Legal transfers of tax receipts is not "stealing"

Quote:As for Christian politicians: I would rather have them, than the head middle east terrorist we've had for the past 8 years...the lesser evil by far..

He IS a Christian, and you are a bigot.

Reading your reply makes me almost want to be a Christian again. At least they are not usually liberals/communists. I think I really dislike liberals and the way they think. Yuck. I think I am not going to like this forum after all. I thought I would find like minded people here, but I was obviously wrong.
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22-01-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:36 PM)annie123 Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 02:34 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Wow... I missed the part where she claimed President Obama was a "middle eastern terrorist".

That's either a Poe or a bigot.

Either way, I'm not wasting my time.

She even hit on the "liberals hate guns" canard. Rolleyes

What's a POE?

Someone who tries to make a certain group look bad by posing as one of that group and making inane or repulsive statements.

Like, for example, a Christian who poses as an atheist and says things that imply that she (and by association, atheists in general) is a heartless monster.

I don't think that's what you are -- I think you truly are a heartless monster -- but that's what the word "poe" means.
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22-01-2017, 02:48 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:45 PM)annie123 Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 02:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Caring for those ALREADY alive who are ill and old has NOTHING to do with natural selection.


The ONLY reason healthcare is in the state it is today, is because resources were combined. You could not afford to pay for ANY of the major surgical procedures out of your own pocket. You have a few hundred thousand to a million to pay a heart surgeon ?


I seriously doubt that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dio...atmosphere


The availability of guns in the US make the entire society unsafe.


Legal transfers of tax receipts is not "stealing"


He IS a Christian, and you are a bigot.

Reading your reply makes me almost want to be a Christian again. At least they are not usually liberals/communists. I think I really dislike liberals and the way they think. Yuck. I think I am not going to like this forum after all. I thought I would find like minded people here, but I was obviously wrong.

Wait, we are communists because we like helping people?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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22-01-2017, 02:49 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:35 PM)annie123 Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 02:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  One conclusion you might draw from that is that empathy for those less fortunate is a human characteristic, not a Christian one. Atheism does not require one to shed one's humanity and become a monster.

So I am a monster now, just because I don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare and upkeep? Wow!

Honestly, I don't care for ( most) people and think there are way too many on the planet. I care about my family , friends and animals, but random strangers , not really. Just being honest here. I would pay for the healthcare of a friend, or even for the dog of a friend, but I would not pay for someone I don't even know. I don't even like most people and prefer the company of just a few, and my animals. Oh yeah, that's another thing my Christian friends hated about me, that I treat my dog like a family member. I suppose you think that is wrong also?

I don't care.

(22-01-2017 02:35 PM)annie123 Wrote:  I care about my family , friends and animals, but random strangers , not really.

Hummm. So reciprocity isn't a thing with you, huh. You'd better hope you never get really old. Hopefully you'll die in middle age so you aren't dependent on anything or anyone for help.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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22-01-2017, 02:50 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:44 PM)SYZ Wrote:  If you're going to maintain some sort of regard here, then you need to improve your act. Seriously.

I don't think I want to remain here, you people are the kind of people I want nothing to do with.
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22-01-2017, 02:50 PM
RE: President Donald Trump
(22-01-2017 02:07 PM)annie123 Wrote:  What's wrong with social Darwinism? Yes packs ( of animals) do take care of each other, but they don't take care of their old, sick or disabled. Those just die.
My thoughts are that if you didn't support old, sick, disabled, you would have a much healthier population that would need much less money for healthcare. It would just be more economic and practical. That's all.

"Wrong" is a word pertaining to human goals. If a lot of people don't want something to happen, and they can do something to prevent it, then it's likely that they'll consider it "wrong."

Natural selection is a trend observed in nature. It has no agenda. Every facet of human behavior does not have to slope upward toward the ultimate end goal of the survival and propagation of a species. Evolution has no end goal. It's just a thing that tends to happen over long periods of time due to various selection pressures, and it's definitely not a mandate which dictates our every whim.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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