Pretty cool how you attack... .
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-07-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(19-07-2015 06:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Everything seems to have order, drive, and a goal in eestince.

Wow, I'm convinced... Dodgy

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Anjele's post
19-07-2015, 08:24 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(19-07-2015 06:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Julep,

Everything seems to have order, drive, and a goal in eestince. Even plants fight for survival when they must.

Rocks can't think. Neither can galaxies, but they go along there path of existence without faulter. No consciousness needed. The same can be said for insects. They just know there goal and execute it without question.
The Universe doesn't need us per say. But through our unique opportunity we could no doubt benifit from the Universe and perhaps it to could benifit from us. We are very unique, and have unparalleled opportunity. I don't know what this potential is capable of off of earth. But I do know that it is the only way we will ever survive past the destruction of the earth. Or the point at which earth will no longer have us as her guests.

Thanks for your response.

I would disagree that life which tries to stay alive is working to fulfill a goal or follow a path in the sense you seem to mean. The assertion that plants try to survive, therefore plants have a purpose and intention, or are thus fulfilling a creator's or world god's intention, strikes me as anthropomorphic.

I would also disagree that there is any metaphysical significance to the observed facts that objects such as rocks and galaxies have properties that are consistent with what we know about physics and other sciences. I can't use your terminology of following a path because of the implications packed into that phrase, which include some kind of consciousness that is doing the "following," that there are a number of possible paths and somehow the correct one has been chosen, etc.

I don't see any evidence for your claim that humans can benefit or do harm to the universe, although we can certainly do harm to the other living things on our earth. Thanks for admitting that this part of your theology is merely hopeful speculation, though. I appreciate that honesty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like julep's post
19-07-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(17-07-2015 04:55 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Meviazhi? Please tell me more. I've not heard of that one.

Cheers.

Meviazhi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

Salman Rushdie talks to Terry Gilliam
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ArchibaldFunkdust's post
19-07-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(19-07-2015 08:02 AM)Free Wrote:  
(19-07-2015 06:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Julep,

Everything seems to have order, drive, and a goal in eestince. Even plants fight for survival when they must.

Since we have not yet observed "everything," it may be a bit presumptuous of you to arrive at that conclusion.

It may be more accurate for you to claim that everything you can observe at this point in time seems to have order, drive, and a goal.

Now, in regards to this position of yours, there are actually two schools of thought of which I will explain below.

Determinism:

Determinism is the philosophical position that for every event, including human action, there exist conditions that could cause no other event.

In a nutshell, determinism is the philosophical position that everything began with a singular cause, which resulted in a chain reaction that cannot be altered, and it is the foundation for the saying of "everything happens for a reason."

Indeterminism:

Indeterminism is the concept that events (certain events, or events of certain types) are not caused, or not caused deterministically (cf. causality) by prior events. It is the opposite of determinism and related to chance. It is highly relevant to the philosophical problem of free will, particularly in the form of metaphysical libertarianism.

From my perspective, both indeterminism and determinism both co-exist, but if the universe is infinite as my earlier post indicates, then the universe is certainly mostly random/indeterminate in its existence.

What you perceive as "order" is the result of "order being created out of chaos." This means that determinism is being formed from within an indeterminate universe, but this state of determinism will have a time-line measuring it's duration of existence, and will eventually break down into its natural indeterminate state.

As humans, we tend to measure things according to our perspective. We see the beginning and ending of things, such as life. We assign a period of duration to all things existing within the order we perceive.

But that is our creation. We create these perspectives, and attempt to understand the universe from our limited perspectives. However, the reality is that it is more probable that the universe is an eternal indeterminate existence in which in many areas of the universe determinism is created for a limited period of time.

And even in our small determinate area of the universe, random variables from the indeterminate universe still affect us, influencing our decision making in what we commonly understand as "free will."

In time, as you stay here with us, your mind will be influenced by the education you will receive from many of us, and your perspectives will change.

That's how the natural universe works.
Likewise
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2015, 03:34 PM
Pretty cool how you attack... .
Unfogged,
Entire galaxies live in order. Spiral, skeptical so forth, all order for sustained existence.
Solar systems all have order in that everything in them has an orbit.
Our own moon resides with us in her silent beauty in order for us to experience life in our distinct fashion.


[Image: c77906a6bf2e569c228d3b62bb58608a.jpg]

Don't know if that worked but I will explain it. In my yard is a pear tree. This tree is close to a burn pile that I burn regularly. This little sappling used to shoot straight into the air in its intended path. It had no limbs, straight up. Well I burned my pile next to this tree quite a few times. I thought it was toast. So yeah the main part if the tree died a couple of years ago. But it's weird because instead of accepting its inevitable demise this fucking plant actually changed its course after realizing it was doomed without adjustment. Tree now has one limb. This limb shoots out at 90° away from my burn pile. This one limb is my proof that plants not only obey there path, but actually have the ability to change it. They choose life in the one direction that is most beneficial. It isn't chance. It's experience.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2015, 03:41 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(19-07-2015 03:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(19-07-2015 08:02 AM)Free Wrote:  Since we have not yet observed "everything," it may be a bit presumptuous of you to arrive at that conclusion.

It may be more accurate for you to claim that everything you can observe at this point in time seems to have order, drive, and a goal.

Now, in regards to this position of yours, there are actually two schools of thought of which I will explain below.

Determinism:

Determinism is the philosophical position that for every event, including human action, there exist conditions that could cause no other event.

In a nutshell, determinism is the philosophical position that everything began with a singular cause, which resulted in a chain reaction that cannot be altered, and it is the foundation for the saying of "everything happens for a reason."

Indeterminism:

Indeterminism is the concept that events (certain events, or events of certain types) are not caused, or not caused deterministically (cf. causality) by prior events. It is the opposite of determinism and related to chance. It is highly relevant to the philosophical problem of free will, particularly in the form of metaphysical libertarianism.

From my perspective, both indeterminism and determinism both co-exist, but if the universe is infinite as my earlier post indicates, then the universe is certainly mostly random/indeterminate in its existence.

What you perceive as "order" is the result of "order being created out of chaos." This means that determinism is being formed from within an indeterminate universe, but this state of determinism will have a time-line measuring it's duration of existence, and will eventually break down into its natural indeterminate state.

As humans, we tend to measure things according to our perspective. We see the beginning and ending of things, such as life. We assign a period of duration to all things existing within the order we perceive.

But that is our creation. We create these perspectives, and attempt to understand the universe from our limited perspectives. However, the reality is that it is more probable that the universe is an eternal indeterminate existence in which in many areas of the universe determinism is created for a limited period of time.

And even in our small determinate area of the universe, random variables from the indeterminate universe still affect us, influencing our decision making in what we commonly understand as "free will."

In time, as you stay here with us, your mind will be influenced by the education you will receive from many of us, and your perspectives will change.

That's how the natural universe works.
Likewise

Perhaps it would be prudent of you to recognize, and then separate, beliefs from knowledge.

Allow me to explain ...

Many people use the word "possible" in respect to concepts and ideas. However, most people are completely unaware of how detailed "possible" actually is. Here, listed below, is the definition of the word:

possible:

: able to be done

: able to happen or exist

: able or suited to be or to become something specified


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possible

Therefore, for something to be possible, it must be able to be done; it must be able to exist, etc.

In regards to any kind of a god, or any kind of a concept such as your position on universal intelligent design, the very first intellectually honest thing to acknowledge is whether or not there is any direct evidence that would enable intelligent design as being possible.

Anyone can say that anything is possible, but is it really possible? What evidence can be provided to qualify the possibility? Claiming something is possible is no different than claiming actual existence because both claims are positive claims, and therefore both positive claims carry the burden of proof/evidence to qualify them as being either true, or possibly true.

For example, I can say that it is possible that 100,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys are flying in the sky right now, but how valid is the possibility? Here's a truth:

It is no less valid than claiming intelligent design because neither proposal has any direct evidence to support the positive claim. It is not a matter of how ridiculous the claim is, because any positive claim regarding something extraordinary must, by necessity, be qualified as being possible via direct evidence, and not mere speculation.

This is how proper reasoning actually works. With our reasoning, we separate beliefs from actual knowledge by understanding what is reasonable and what is possible, and how they differ from what is unreasonable and what is actually not possible at all.

And that is the proper application of intellectual honesty.

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
Insects goal is to be. In the most efficient and fruitful way possible. Some insects are actually social creatures they work together for a common goal. Existence in the best way.

We could affect the Universe.
Through harmanic unity with all existence we would have unbound understanding as a civilization. This would in turn give way to technological advancement of which we can't even fathom. Through this advancement we could no doubt break through the limits of distant travel. We mite be able to tap into the potential, or chaos of the Universe for good. With that being said . The opposite side of the coin could yield absolute destruction of everything. And of course our current state if indifference will most likely lead to our eventual extinction due to lack of ability to change our doomed course.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2015, 03:50 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
Usually if I Say knowledge instead of belief it's because I know it to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt. Of course that doesn't mean anyone else has to believe me though.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2015, 03:59 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(19-07-2015 03:50 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Usually if I Say knowledge instead of belief it's because I know it to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt. Of course that doesn't mean anyone else has to believe me though.

If it were true beyond a shadow of a doubt, how then can so many people disagree with you?

Let me elaborate with a hypothetical scenario ...

10 people went into an empty room. As they stood in the empty room, one person named John pointed to the center of the room and said, "There is a chair in the center of the room."

Everyone looked, but nobody else could see a chair in the center of the room. People walked straight through the center of the room and never banged into a chair, or seen any evidence of a chair at all. Yet John swears on his life that there is a chair in the center of the room.

Question: Because John swears on his life that there is a chair in the center of the room in which only he can see, does it mean that there actually is a chair in the center of the room?

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Free's post
19-07-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
A chair is material so no there mite not be a chair in that case. Let's change the thing from a chair to thought or emotion. Let's say that John is actually not seeing a chair but has the conviction and assosiated emotion that is appaerent with truth. Let's say that the others can't see or feel that truth. Does it mean that there is no truth just because the other 9 people haven't found it in spite of there search. Or could it be that they were searching in the wrong manner?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: