Pretty cool how you attack... .
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20-07-2015, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2015 02:33 PM by Free.)
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 02:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 12:15 PM)Free Wrote:  It is a concept that demonstrates the truth of the concept.

Chas has stated that numbers have no physical existence. However, that does not indicate that numbers do not have any kind of existence at all.

They exist.

The word "existence" is not restricted to what is only physical. For example, does a concept exist? If not, how then can it be expressed?

If a thought does not exist, how then can you think?

Do the emotions of anger, happiness, laughter, sadness and jealousy exist? If not, how then do we experience them?

You see, there's more to existence than what is merely physical and observable.

Do you understand this?

They exist only in minds.

But, as you agree, they do indeed exist even if they only exist in our minds.

Now, the bigger question is this:

Are they physical?

That's a whole different ball game, and they may indeed be physical. A thought may leave a physical impression upon our brains that may sometime be observed, much the same way as a song is written to a disk.

It is an interesting posit.

It's all about "personal reality" verses "universal reality."

Is either one less or more real than the other?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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20-07-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 01:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Absolutely, completely. This is what I have been saying. Cool to see someone else gets it.

That isn't what you've been saying though. You aren't just claiming that concepts exist, or that intangible things like emotions exist. You've been claiming that we survive after death in some form and that plants and insects have goals and that rocks follow some sort of path. Concepts don't need physical evidence and things like emotions have physical evidence anyway. Your woo has nothing to back it up.

(20-07-2015 01:29 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The tree could have given up and ended its pain. Instead it changed its path of growth in order to survive.

Please demonstrate that trees feel pain or can give up or decide instead to change direction. Anthropomorphizing like that can be an easy short-hand but isn't an accurate assessment of what happened unless, of course, you can provide evidence for some level of cognition in plants.

(20-07-2015 01:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Never said anything about a plant having reasoning skilled as if it had a brain. It does have the will to live though, regardless of the level of pain or difficulty.

What about a plant makes you think it has a will of any sort? You are so deep in the woo I doubt you can ever surface.

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20-07-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 02:24 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 02:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  They exist only in minds.

But, as you agree, they do indeed exist even if they only exist in our minds.

Now, the bigger question is this:

Are they physical?

Which part of "They exist only in minds" did you miss? The "only"?

Quote:That's a whole different ball game, and they may indeed be physical.

How? Is there a Platonic realm?

Quote:A thought may leave a physical impression upon our brains that may sometime be observed, much the same way as a song is written to a disk.

It is an old idea that has been done to death by philosophers since Plato.

Quote:It is an interesting posit.

What, exactly, is interesting about it?

Quote:It's all about "personal reality" verses "universal reality."

Is either one less or more real than the other?

Ideas and concepts exist in our minds, they are not external reality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-07-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 02:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 02:24 PM)Free Wrote:  But, as you agree, they do indeed exist even if they only exist in our minds.

Now, the bigger question is this:

Are they physical?

Which part of "They exist only in minds" did you miss? The "only"?

Quote:That's a whole different ball game, and they may indeed be physical.

How? Is there a Platonic realm?

Quote:A thought may leave a physical impression upon our brains that may sometime be observed, much the same way as a song is written to a disk.

It is an old idea that has been done to death by philosophers since Plato.

Quote:It is an interesting posit.

What, exactly, is interesting about it?

Quote:It's all about "personal reality" verses "universal reality."

Is either one less or more real than the other?

Ideas and concepts exist in our minds, they are not external reality.

Is external reality the only reality?

Are your memories about past events real, or imagined? The event that triggered those memories was an actual event, but it no longer exists. It disappeared with the passage of time.

Since the event that triggered those memories is now non existent, then is it still a reality? Did it really happen?

Of course it did, and it was a reality, but it no longer exists .... except in your mind.

True or false?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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20-07-2015, 03:12 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 02:47 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 02:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  Which part of "They exist only in minds" did you miss? The "only"?


How? Is there a Platonic realm?


It is an old idea that has been done to death by philosophers since Plato.


What, exactly, is interesting about it?


Ideas and concepts exist in our minds, they are not external reality.

Is external reality the only reality?

Are your memories about past events real, or imagined? The event that triggered those memories was an actual event, but it no longer exists. It disappeared with the passage of time.

Since the event that triggered those memories is now non existent, then is it still a reality? Did it really happen?

Of course it did, and it was a reality, but it no longer exists .... except in your mind.

True or false?

What is the confusion and what is your point?
Memories, thoughts, emotions, etc. exist in our minds and nowhere else.

You seem to be conflating the various meanings of the word "real".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-07-2015, 03:16 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 03:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 02:47 PM)Free Wrote:  Is external reality the only reality?

Are your memories about past events real, or imagined? The event that triggered those memories was an actual event, but it no longer exists. It disappeared with the passage of time.

Since the event that triggered those memories is now non existent, then is it still a reality? Did it really happen?

Of course it did, and it was a reality, but it no longer exists .... except in your mind.

True or false?

What is the confusion and what is your point?
Memories, thoughts, emotions, etc. exist in our minds and nowhere else.

You seem to be conflating the various meanings of the word "real".

I am not confused. My position is straight forward.

You have said, "Memories, thoughts, emotions, etc. exist in our minds and nowhere else,"

My question to you is this:

Just because they exist only in our minds, does that make them any less real than physical matter that exists externally from our minds?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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20-07-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 01:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 01:37 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  Ah, a Scientologist! Tomatoes scream, trees feel pain. Alrighty then. You should have said so up front.
Have no clue what you are saying. Don't think you do either. Anything that is alive can feel some sort of pain.

Define "alive".


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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20-07-2015, 06:39 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 03:16 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 03:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  What is the confusion and what is your point?
Memories, thoughts, emotions, etc. exist in our minds and nowhere else.

You seem to be conflating the various meanings of the word "real".

I am not confused. My position is straight forward.

You have said, "Memories, thoughts, emotions, etc. exist in our minds and nowhere else,"

My question to you is this:

Just because they exist only in our minds, does that make them any less real than physical matter that exists externally from our minds?

What do you mean by "real"? They have no physical manifestation outside of our brains so the idea that there are infinitely many integers does not affect physical reality, i.e. it has no bearing on whether or not the universe is infinite.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-07-2015, 06:51 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 06:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 03:16 PM)Free Wrote:  I am not confused. My position is straight forward.

You have said, "Memories, thoughts, emotions, etc. exist in our minds and nowhere else,"

My question to you is this:

Just because they exist only in our minds, does that make them any less real than physical matter that exists externally from our minds?

What do you mean by "real"?

Real = Reality = Existence

Quote:They have no physical manifestation outside of our brains so the idea that there are infinitely many integers does not affect physical reality, i.e. it has no bearing on whether or not the universe is infinite.

That may be true, but that was never my point.

My point was merely that we can demonstrate conceptually how infinity exists (conceptually) through the simple counting of numbers, and by using the same concept we also demonstrate the state of eternity.

It is a concept that all rational people can agree upon. Since all rational people can agree upon what the concept demonstrates, it raises the question of whether or not infinity and eternity can exist within the external physical reality.

In short, the universally accepted concept is every bit as true as 1 + 1 = 2. Therefore, if something is true, then is it not a reality?

Therefore, if it exists and it is true, then what is it?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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20-07-2015, 07:21 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Look here you whiny, diluted, worthless, waste or energy.
I'm waste or energy? I'm diluted? Like in water? That's some rather odd stuff to say.Drinking Beverage

You know you keep trying to tell me you are not deluded and yet you do stuff like this. You make a bunch of fallacious personal attacks devoid of any actual argument then when I accuse you of bringing nothing at all but personal attacks devoid of any actual argument to the conversation ....your response is to type out a big ol' cry baby response where you bring nothing but fallacious personal attacks devoid of any actual argument and you thought that was a good idea when you wrote it. And you want me to believe you are not stupid or delusional? Ya.......no.

You know if your just gonna try and regurgitate my own insults of you word for poorly spelt word they are not gonna have much affect on me because I also attach arguments to my insults and I also demonstrate why my insults are accurate you lying, delusional, lunatic.
You use insults in the place of an argument, and you don't even know where to start when it comes to demonstrating much of anything. Your groundless criticisms slide off me like warm Irish rain, only with even less substance.Drinking Beverage


(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You talk a lot of bullshit, but that's all you do.
Every single criticism I've leveled at you from your abject dishonestly to your mindbogglingly complete insanity has been repeatedly demonstrated, explained, and cataloged. The definition of bullshit is not "anything I disagree with or makes me look stupid." Try again shit for brains.

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Keep pulling your brothers down to your level
...said the idiot while actively denigrating scientific advancement and trying to drag people back to the stone age like an oblivious idiot.Rolleyes

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  you self centered fool.
Still waiting on a single example of my self centered or selfish proclamations. Still waiting....stiiiiiill waiting.....

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Your repeated attacks are very welcome indeed.
That's funny cause a few posts back you said they were not welcome at all. Make up your mind you stupid nutcase.

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  There are two sides you pompous prick.
Right there is your side which is based on delusions, dishonesty, the refusal to admit wrongdoing in the face of incontrovertible evidence of your rampant wrong doing, out right lies, the inability to form cogent and readable thoughts and then there is my side which is based on reason, evidence, logic and the utter refusal to accept self deluded proclamations for the stupid as fact and an unwillingness to let your dishonest strangle up this conversation without resistance.
One side, yours, argues for genocide, slavery, rape, and oppression for women while the other side, mine, argues that those things are wrong.

Gee which could possibly be the better side?
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(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Keep push in, that's what the fuck you do.
Unless "push in" is how you have chosen to define the complete and utter destruction of your entire nonsensical and dishonest argument then that sentence holds no reflection reality what so ever.


(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  How dare you speak of things you no nothing of
This entire lesson has been about demonstrating, successfully, that YOU are speaking about things which YOU know nothing about. You don't know anything, but you do believe a whole lot of silly superstitious nonsense for no reason at all.

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  as if you have experienced anything that wasn't through the looking glass of the bottom of the bottle.
So not only are you not gonna apologize for being caught in a lie about my supposed drinking you are gonna just repeat it. Delusional and dishonest yet again.

You know whats funny though? I love when people call me a drunk on this forum. I fucking love it. When you do it, when Woofs would did it, when CotW did it, I fucking love it. You are basically admitting, even if you don't realize it, that even if I was drunk off my damn horse I can STILL kick your ass in a debate, I can STILL utterly destroy your arguments and I can STILL make you look like an idiot child who buys his brain cells from a thrift store two at a time. Oh and in your case that I can still type better then you while drunk then you can sober.
So go ahead call me a drunk, I'm happy for everyone here to think I'm kicking your ass while suffering from a disadvantage.
Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load
Keep diggin' that hole kid, keep on diggin'.

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Crazy is an understatement you fucking moron.
.. said the idiot in an argument about his unproven delusions being real things.Rolleyes

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Just because I generally try really hard to stay on the positive doesn't mean I don't have an equally close relationship with the negative.
I should care because..........? I imagine your negative side is just as bumblefuckingly incompetent as your positive side. The only thing positive about you would be an aids test Captain Rapey. Drinking Beverage

Eaaaaaaaaaaat a dick!

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I tell you what you sneaking fucking worm.
...said the idiot refusing to accept the burden of proof while repeatedly lying. Rolleyes

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Why don't you pm me a pic of yourself. I will do the same. We can meet in the middle and I can prove everything to you in person.
First off you giant fucking idiot there is a picture of me beside every post that I write. My word you are stupid. Secondly no thank you I really don't want a picture of you, that's fucking creepy and gross. Third and lastly why would I meet you in person? I have no reason to believe you would be any less delusional and dishonest in person then you are here. Why the fuck would I run towards the lunatic who keeps trying, poorly though, to threaten me?
Sorry but you are just gonna have to be content with having you ass kicked, metaphorically, here stupid.

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You are right there isn't shit for you but pain.
OooooooOOooooo scary! You're just such an adorable internet tough guy thug! Enjoy your coming nonexistence! I know I bloody can't wait for you to stop wasting better people's air.

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Hide behind your anonymity you fucking pussy, or put your selfish thoughts to the test.
...said the idiot while hiding behind his own anonymity to the person with his picture as his profile picture and his location in his bio. Rolleyes

What selfish thoughts would those be again......? oh right you haven't shown any! Stiiiiiiiiiiiill waiiiiiiting......

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  What of it? Lets play. Did I mention that I don't play too well with others? Did I mention that I long to be broken? Did I mention that in my alternate state of being that I daydream of pain. Brake my body you dumb shit.
I honestly can't tell if your trying to fight me or get me to fuck you roughly you lunatic. Oh dear this little argument... it's not.....this is not foreplay for you is it? Shocking

Drinking Beverage

(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Let m show you what true spirit is capable of despite the physical state.
If you wanna show what true spirit is capable of despite the physical state why don't you blow the business end of shotgun like it was the dick you so clearly hunger for and then try to pick a fight. See what your spirit is capable of then, tough guy.Drinking Beverage


(20-07-2015 05:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Pleeeease friendo.
lolwut?


Here is a summery of your entire post in a single gif.
[Image: asian-crying.gif]
Did you notice how there was no arguments in that gif? Ya, pretty much that.

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