Pretty cool how you attack... .
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20-07-2015, 09:04 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
I really have. I am not done by any means though. I am naturally an overthinker. All I have done for the majority of my life is observe and contemplate. I didn't make my conclusions initially. The basis of everything I know in reference to reality is a combination of personal observation through experience and my relatively new found Faith that wasn't inhearent, but given to me. In this I have been blessed and saved. I know it sounds conceided. Please know that it is not. I strive to further my own understanding so I can make connections to reality and why so many cannot see. I understand that most atheist can actually relate to a lot of what I say. They get confused and defensive when you say God though. God is good. That's all it has to be for people to really start to understand. You don't have to think of creation or existence as some human looking figure that floats around in the clouds. Of course that isn't the case.
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20-07-2015, 09:24 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 09:04 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I really have. I am not done by any means though. I am naturally an overthinker. All I have done for the majority of my life is observe and contemplate. I didn't make my conclusions initially. The basis of everything I know in reference to reality is a combination of personal observation through experience and my relatively new found Faith that wasn't inhearent, but given to me. In this I have been blessed and saved. I know it sounds conceided. Please know that it is not. I strive to further my own understanding so I can make connections to reality and why so many cannot see. I understand that most atheist can actually relate to a lot of what I say. They get confused and defensive when you say God though. God is good. That's all it has to be for people to really start to understand. You don't have to think of creation or existence as some human looking figure that floats around in the clouds. Of course that isn't the case.

One of the things that most atheists have in common is their development of rational skepticism. Sure, many atheist take their skepticism too far, even to the point of being irrational. Much of that behaviour is caused from the harm they have received from any religious beliefs they held before they became atheistic.

However, some atheists here, such as Chas, myself, and a fair number of others, take rational skepticism very seriously, and we will often argue among ourselves as a means of achieving a greater understanding and advancement of rational skepticism.

We are skeptics because we have trained our minds to critically analyse data that is presented to us. We try not to allow any beliefs to interfere with our critical assessment because it is a well known fact that beliefs can contribute to something we call "confirmation bias."

No matter what the truth is, it will be the truth. Truth itself cannot be influenced by any beliefs, for it is like a mile high monolith impervious to all the lies hurled upon it. When all the lies fall away, the truth is all that will remain.

Therefore, never rest and never become comfortable with whatever it is you believe the truth to be. For before you held your current beliefs, you held different ones that, at that point in time, you also believed were true. Yet, those previous beliefs are no longer true to you, as you feel you have advanced to another level.

You owe it to yourself to find the truth, and to do so, you must continue the search. If you really want to get to your destination, understand that many times the journey itself will cause you to stumble and fall. Some of those who stumble and fall are content to stay down, and take rest. Never rest.

Get up.




How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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20-07-2015, 09:40 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 09:24 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 09:04 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I really have. I am not done by any means though. I am naturally an overthinker. All I have done for the majority of my life is observe and contemplate. I didn't make my conclusions initially. The basis of everything I know in reference to reality is a combination of personal observation through experience and my relatively new found Faith that wasn't inhearent, but given to me. In this I have been blessed and saved. I know it sounds conceided. Please know that it is not. I strive to further my own understanding so I can make connections to reality and why so many cannot see. I understand that most atheist can actually relate to a lot of what I say. They get confused and defensive when you say God though. God is good. That's all it has to be for people to really start to understand. You don't have to think of creation or existence as some human looking figure that floats around in the clouds. Of course that isn't the case.

One of the things that most atheists have in common is their development of rational skepticism. Sure, many atheist take their skepticism too far, even to the point of being irrational. Much of that behaviour is caused from the harm they have received from any religious beliefs they held before they became atheistic.

However, some atheists here, such as Chas, myself, and a fair number of others, take rational skepticism very seriously, and we will often argue among ourselves as a means of achieving a greater understanding and advancement of rational skepticism.

We are skeptics because we have trained our minds to critically analyse data that is presented to us. We try not to allow any beliefs to interfere with our critical assessment because it is a well known fact that beliefs can contribute to something we call "confirmation bias."

No matter what the truth is, it will be the truth. Truth itself cannot be influenced by any beliefs, for it is like a mile high monolith impervious to all the lies hurled upon it. When all the lies fall away, the truth is all that will remain.

Therefore, never rest and never become comfortable with whatever it is you believe the truth to be. For before you held your current beliefs, you held different ones that, at that point in time, you also believed were true. Yet, those previous beliefs are no longer true to you, as you feel you have advanced to another level.

You owe it to yourself to find the truth, and to do so, you must continue the search. If you really want to get to your destination, understand that many times the journey itself will cause you to stumble and fall. Some of those who stumble and fall are content to stay down, and take rest. Never rest.

Get up.



Great. Really. Thanks again. I am not comfortable with any beliefs. I search for truth. And I get confirmation of my thoughts. If this confirmation eludes me then I am not correct. I kinda broke down my individual process to a science of sorts in that mere beliefs aren't added to any equation unless they fit into it perfectly and simply without any conflict. Through my excessive thought I can actually know when I am lying to myself. This took the better part of my life to learn and is only valid through Faith in good existence. I'm probably ranting again. Really though, thank you for your kind motivation. Every time my resolve even considers lessening I am motivated by an unknown ally. This goes for the constructive critics too. Thank you with the utmost sincerity. We will achieve great things through eventual unity and harmony.
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20-07-2015, 09:57 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 09:40 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I am not comfortable with any beliefs. I search for truth.

You'll get there.

Dare to doubt. Question everything. You see, it isn't so much that the truth itself will set you free, but rather the journey towards it will unloosen the ties that bind, so that when you arrive at the truth, you will already be free.

The truth is within you. Conquer yourself so that you may be free.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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20-07-2015, 10:23 PM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 09:24 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 09:04 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I really have. I am not done by any means though. I am naturally an overthinker. All I have done for the majority of my life is observe and contemplate. I didn't make my conclusions initially. The basis of everything I know in reference to reality is a combination of personal observation through experience and my relatively new found Faith that wasn't inhearent, but given to me. In this I have been blessed and saved. I know it sounds conceided. Please know that it is not. I strive to further my own understanding so I can make connections to reality and why so many cannot see. I understand that most atheist can actually relate to a lot of what I say. They get confused and defensive when you say God though. God is good. That's all it has to be for people to really start to understand. You don't have to think of creation or existence as some human looking figure that floats around in the clouds. Of course that isn't the case.

One of the things that most atheists have in common is their development of rational skepticism. Sure, many atheist take their skepticism too far, even to the point of being irrational. Much of that behaviour is caused from the harm they have received from any religious beliefs they held before they became atheistic.

However, some atheists here, such as Chas, myself, and a fair number of others, take rational skepticism very seriously, and we will often argue among ourselves as a means of achieving a greater understanding and advancement of rational skepticism.

We are skeptics because we have trained our minds to critically analyse data that is presented to us. We try not to allow any beliefs to interfere with our critical assessment because it is a well known fact that beliefs can contribute to something we call "confirmation bias."

No matter what the truth is, it will be the truth. Truth itself cannot be influenced by any beliefs, for it is like a mile high monolith impervious to all the lies hurled upon it. When all the lies fall away, the truth is all that will remain.

Therefore, never rest and never become comfortable with whatever it is you believe the truth to be. For before you held your current beliefs, you held different ones that, at that point in time, you also believed were true. Yet, those previous beliefs are no longer true to you, as you feel you have advanced to another level.

You owe it to yourself to find the truth, and to do so, you must continue the search. If you really want to get to your destination, understand that many times the journey itself will cause you to stumble and fall. Some of those who stumble and fall are content to stay down, and take rest. Never rest.

Get up.



I'll rest when I'm dead.
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21-07-2015, 04:59 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 06:51 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:They have no physical manifestation outside of our brains so the idea that there are infinitely many integers does not affect physical reality, i.e. it has no bearing on whether or not the universe is infinite.

That may be true, but that was never my point.

Really? That wasn't your point? Then why did you say:
Free Wrote:Start counting numbers .. 1 ... 2... 3 ... and you will quickly understand that you could conceivably count an infinite amount of numbers. Also, because you could count an infinite amount of numbers, it by necessity implies that you could count numbers eternally.

What this does is demonstrate to you that both infinity and eternity exist. Now to take it a step further, since we could line up the counting of numbers as if they were written on paper, we could write each number on a separate piece of paper and place them in order, so that they would continue infinitely, and thus, eternally.

My point here is in demonstrating via simple mathematics that the universe must, by necessity, be both infinite and eternal. Otherwise, we could not have an infinite amount of numbers.

Quote:My point was merely that we can demonstrate conceptually how infinity exists (conceptually) through the simple counting of numbers, and by using the same concept we also demonstrate the state of eternity.

It is a concept that all rational people can agree upon. Since all rational people can agree upon what the concept demonstrates, it raises the question of whether or not infinity and eternity can exist within the external physical reality.

In short, the universally accepted concept is every bit as true as 1 + 1 = 2. Therefore, if something is true, then is it not a reality?

Therefore, if it exists and it is true, then what is it?

It is concepts in minds, nothing more.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-07-2015, 05:12 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(20-07-2015 09:57 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 09:40 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I am not comfortable with any beliefs. I search for truth.

You'll get there.

Dare to doubt. Question everything. You see, it isn't so much that the truth itself will set you free, but rather the journey towards it will unloosen the ties that bind, so that when you arrive at the truth, you will already be free.

The truth is within you. Conquer yourself so that you may be free.

You have shown great forbearance - even kindness - here. My hat's off to you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-07-2015, 07:44 AM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2015 08:08 AM by Free.)
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(21-07-2015 04:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 06:51 PM)Free Wrote:  That may be true, but that was never my point.

Really? That wasn't your point? Then why did you say:
Free Wrote:Start counting numbers .. 1 ... 2... 3 ... and you will quickly understand that you could conceivably count an infinite amount of numbers. Also, because you could count an infinite amount of numbers, it by necessity implies that you could count numbers eternally.

What this does is demonstrate to you that both infinity and eternity exist. Now to take it a step further, since we could line up the counting of numbers as if they were written on paper, we could write each number on a separate piece of paper and place them in order, so that they would continue infinitely, and thus, eternally.

My point here is in demonstrating via simple mathematics that the universe must, by necessity, be both infinite and eternal. Otherwise, we could not have an infinite amount of numbers.

My point was to demonstrate that according to the concept- which is as true as 1 + 1 = 2, that infinity does indeed exist. If it is true, then it cannot be contained within a finite universe.

Your statement of "only in our minds" does not, in anyway whatsoever, negate the existence, and the statement itself may very well be false. See below.

Quote:
Quote:My point was merely that we can demonstrate conceptually how infinity exists (conceptually) through the simple counting of numbers, and by using the same concept we also demonstrate the state of eternity.

It is a concept that all rational people can agree upon. Since all rational people can agree upon what the concept demonstrates, it raises the question of whether or not infinity and eternity can exist within the external physical reality.

In short, the universally accepted concept is every bit as true as 1 + 1 = 2. Therefore, if something is true, then is it not a reality?

Therefore, if it exists and it is true, then what is it?

It is concepts in minds, nothing more.

Do you not think that 1 + 1 = 2 would be true even if there were no minds to conceptualize it? Would the progression of counting numbers to infinity not exist without a mind to conceptualize it?

Was it true before mankind? Will it be true after we are extinct?

It only seems reasonable to me that we- the entire human race- can only arrive at these so-called "concepts" because ... they already existed, and have existed for eternity.

We are not required for them to exist.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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21-07-2015, 07:44 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(21-07-2015 05:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 09:57 PM)Free Wrote:  You'll get there.

Dare to doubt. Question everything. You see, it isn't so much that the truth itself will set you free, but rather the journey towards it will unloosen the ties that bind, so that when you arrive at the truth, you will already be free.

The truth is within you. Conquer yourself so that you may be free.

You have shown great forbearance - even kindness - here. My hat's off to you.

Thank you.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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21-07-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(21-07-2015 07:44 AM)Free Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 04:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  Really? That wasn't your point? Then why did you say:

My point was to demonstrate that according to the concept- which is as true as 1 + 1 = 2, that infinity does indeed exist. If it is true, then it cannot be contained within a finite universe.

Your statement of "only in our minds" does not, in anyway whatsoever, negate the existence, and the statement itself may very well be false. See below.


Just no. Your conclusion simply does not logically follow. Ideas do not create, define, or limit physical reality.

Quote:
Quote:It is concepts in minds, nothing more.

Do you not think that 1 + 1 = 2 would be true even if there were no minds to conceptualize it? Would the progression of counting numbers to infinity not exist without a mind to conceptualize it?

There are no counting numbers without a mind to conceptualize them.

Quote:Was it true before mankind? Will it be true after we are extinct?

It only seems reasonable to me that we- the entire human race- can only arrive at these so-called "concepts" because ... they already existed, and have existed for eternity.

We are not required for them to exist.

Minds are required for concepts to exist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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