Pretty cool how you attack... .
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22-07-2015, 08:52 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
Unfogged,

True believer, not try.
Faith is different from belief. Belief is similar to a hypothesis, as Faith is similar to fact.

My views aren't closed off at all. I believe most of what science has proved. However, I also believe and know and acknowledge that science cannot test everything. The ones how blindly defend there claims are the ones that really act as if science is a religion and way of life. These poor souls are truely lost.
Just the opposite. I understand everyone. It is they who can't understand me or comprehend ancient texts.

It's not a matter of changing anything as science ce works quite nicely with Faith.

Name one scientific statement that I have rejected, please.
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22-07-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(21-07-2015 09:28 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:20 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It provides all knowledge, just not in a scientifically testable way.
Then it's not knowledge because knowledge is demonstrable and the scientific method is the only investigatory methodology which gives reliably demonstrable results.

You have a belief: you believe that you know but you don't know that you know.
That is a false statement. The scientific method is a human construct, and not the only way to truth.
(22-07-2015 06:57 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Faith isn't the problem.

Faith is the problem. Believing things without evidence and thinking you are justified in doing so is the problem.

Quote:Ask a Christian they will tell you there Faith is week. If they don't then it is because they confuse Faith with belief, or they are a try believer.

That appears to be, at best, a non-sequitur. Faith is belief without evidence so there's no confusion there, and I have no idea what a try believer is.

Quote:I don't question myself in that I doubt myself.

That's a huge part of the problem. You have decided that what you believe is what is actually true and you are completely closed off to changing your mind. It is really sad to see.

Quote:When doubt arises I assess it completely and eradicate it through process of elimination.

In other words you rationalize any conflicting information so that you maintain your current beliefs. That's why you are so completely seeped in woo that you can't understand what anybody else is saying.

Quote:Contrary to popular belief belief and the scientific method can work together.

Only when the believer is open to changing their belief based on evidence.

Quote:Not a closed loop at all. I receive new input, information, and confirmation daily.

Exactly. You take in anything you can use to confirm your belief and reject anything else as wrong. You are one of the most close-minded individuals I've dealt with in a long time.

Quote:The difference in my knowledge and science is that mine is relevant and pertains to things that haven't already been obviously pointed out.

The difference is that your beliefs, not knowledge, are all in your head. They are not supported by actual evidence and have little or no relation to reality. Fantasy can be fun, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle.
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22-07-2015, 09:00 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(21-07-2015 09:22 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 08:40 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yes I am a hypocrite on some levels. Thanks.
Oh! Oh! Oh! From a day ago!
(20-07-2015 05:58 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Hypocrisy isn't in the equation for me as it may be for others.

[Image: post-31074-J-Jonah-Jameson-laughing-gif-S-NWLY.gif]
You are so full of shit.
Hypocrisy is evident in my actions at times that go against what I know. I am not hypocritical in my general message or life. Through life it does happen though as I am a being of good and bad, and even though I know what is right, I often times slip in my haste, and/ or anger. This makes me a hypocrite. I still smoke after knowing from science and God that it will surely kill me before my time. This makes me an exceptional hypocrite and sinner against my own temple. It is damning.
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22-07-2015, 09:04 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(22-07-2015 08:55 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:28 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Then it's not knowledge because knowledge is demonstrable and the scientific method is the only investigatory methodology which gives reliably demonstrable results.

You have a belief: you believe that you know but you don't know that you know.
That is a false statement. The scientific method is a human construct, and not the only way to truth.
(22-07-2015 06:57 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Faith is the problem. Believing things without evidence and thinking you are justified in doing so is the problem.


That appears to be, at best, a non-sequitur. Faith is belief without evidence so there's no confusion there, and I have no idea what a try believer is.


That's a huge part of the problem. You have decided that what you believe is what is actually true and you are completely closed off to changing your mind. It is really sad to see.


In other words you rationalize any conflicting information so that you maintain your current beliefs. That's why you are so completely seeped in woo that you can't understand what anybody else is saying.


Only when the believer is open to changing their belief based on evidence.


Exactly. You take in anything you can use to confirm your belief and reject anything else as wrong. You are one of the most close-minded individuals I've dealt with in a long time.


The difference is that your beliefs, not knowledge, are all in your head. They are not supported by actual evidence and have little or no relation to reality. Fantasy can be fun, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle.

The phrase, only way to truth wasn't stated. It's a matter of investigatory methodology. An actual defined term that has a articulated context.

Your insistence on flimsy use of termonolgy to make wishy washy hope filled sounding phrases that make you pleased has gotten tiresome already. The time wasted on you is no longer needed as you will not change a thing. You actually say you want to see positive and uniting but your mentality and approach is causing more divisiveness. You've become the divider, not the uniter.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-07-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(22-07-2015 08:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  True believer, not try.

I considered that but it made no sense in the sentence.

Quote:Faith is different from belief. Belief is similar to a hypothesis, as Faith is similar to fact.

It is possible to have a hypothesis that you believe is likely to be true but that isn't the way most people use belief, especially in a religious sense. They aren't believing that something may be possible, they are believing it is true. Thinking something is possible is not the same as believing that thing.

Faith is not similar to fact; faith has no connection to fact. Faith is needed only when you don't have any actual facts to support your beliefs.

Quote:However, I also believe and know and acknowledge that science cannot test everything.

If something can't be tested and verified then it may be interesting to ponder but it is irrational to believe it is true.

Quote:Just the opposite. I understand everyone. It is they who can't understand me or comprehend ancient texts.

Laugh out load
Have you considered that it may be that it is because you aren't expressing your ideas in a coherent fashion?

Quote:It's not a matter of changing anything as science ce works quite nicely with Faith.

No, they are quite distinct.

Quote:Name one scientific statement that I have rejected, please.

The problem is the unsubstantiated woo that you tack on to your beliefs. Ideas like our "energy" persisting into some sort of afterlife, or rocks following a path, or trees wanting to live or any of the many other nonsensical crap you have claimed.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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22-07-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
Unfogged,
My personal Faith works flawlessly within scientific fact. To me that means they work together quite nicely. They support one another. In this fashion Faith/ fact are interchangeable. Science can't prove a lot of things, those things still exist.
I understand that I communicate in an unorthodox fashion and that it presents a communication barrier for some. I also know this effect is exaggerated by most.
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22-07-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(22-07-2015 08:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Faith is different from belief. Belief is similar to a hypothesis, as Faith is similar to fact.

Facepalm
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22-07-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(22-07-2015 09:35 AM)ohio_drg Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 08:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Faith is different from belief. Belief is similar to a hypothesis, as Faith is similar to fact.

Facepalm
Really productive input. Keep up the good work.
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22-07-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
(22-07-2015 08:55 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The scientific method is a human construct, and not the only way to truth.

It may not be the "only way," but you have not excluded it as a "way" in general.

Sure, we construct various methods to approximate the truth, but the difference between the methods science uses and such things as faith is that the scientific method produces observable and testable results in which can be verified to be identical en masse via the scientific community.

Faith, on the other hand, will not produce a perfectly identical result in all humans. For example, your views regarding your faith will differ either slightly, or drastically, from the various faiths of others.

What I think it important is here is for you to acknowledge that your faith is indeed a method of belief; a method you yourself created based upon your personal experience and observation.

There is nothing wrong with you developing your faith based upon what you have chosen to accept as being truthful. But in the interests of intellectual honesty it is paramount that you do indeed recognize that your faith is built upon a system of beliefs, and that it is completely unique as a personal position.

It is only when your recognize what your faith actually is that you will ever be capable of stepping back and critically analyzing it. If you can get to that point, one of two things will happen:

1. You will improve your faith through change.

2. You will discard it through change.

Faith is a dynamic that changes as more information becomes available. As you already know, the type of faith you may have had 20 years ago probably bears little to no resemblance to the kind of faith you currently subscribe to.

That alone should tell you something in regards to whether or your faith is true, for if it is different than it was 20 years ago, then was the faith you subscribed to 20 years ago also true?

How can two different levels of faith be true in regards to the same thing when both levels bear no resemblance to one another?

Be careful of what you claim to be true, for intellectual honesty requires you to recognize the dynamic of faith as being a state of belief which is constantly in a state of flux, ever changing, with the past no longer being true.

If the past faith is no longer true, then be skeptical of the present and the future.

In the interests of honesty.

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22-07-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Pretty cool how you attack... .
Free,
Surely have not excluded science in any way. It to verifies what I know.

True Faith does indeed produce identical knowledge when not contorted by selfish motives. I did not create my Faith, it was given to me. Real Faith is unchanging. It doesn't deviate at all. When data comes in from any source, it is only confirming of Faith not changing. It may change beliefs. Beliefs and Faith aren't the same though. I appreciate your unbiased approach. Faith does not change. It is not a variable like data or belief.

Speaking with you is comfortable. Thank you.
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