Pride and Hubris
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27-09-2013, 09:51 AM
Pride and Hubris
I went to lunch with a Christian friend and we debated. I asked him to tell me what is moral and praiseworthy about Moses ordering the murder of women and children (except the young virgin girls which he gave to his men) in Numbers 31 verses 6 through 18.

He says that I am trying to use logic and reason to focus on the wrong things. He says it is my "pride and hubris" (arrogance and self-importance) that makes me do this. Instead, I should look at the lessons the Old Testament is teaching.

I said, "So the Old Testament stories are now the literal truth?" He was stumped. He wouldn't admit it wasn't literally true, but we are not supposed to focus on the little stuff like murder, baby killing and rape.

It's absolutely mind-boggling.

If the U.S. sent troops to defeat Pakistan, and when we beat their army, President Obama went over and ordered the killing of all women and male children, and told the troops that they could take virgin girls for themselves, the world would turn on us, and so would all the Christians in America. What is wrong with them in not being able to apply this same reality check to the Bible?
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27-09-2013, 11:28 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
Good question, and one of the things that had me drop religion. Thumbsup

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27-09-2013, 11:39 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2013 11:43 AM by absols.)
RE: Pride and Hubris
this is what is happening in islamic countries, a lot of fanatic muslims are forcing the rules of coran and it looks disgusting, coran and old testament show the same god

it is the same idea that im sure u also get trapped by, what u mean is to say that god cant b existing so the old testament is surely a book of myths

so the idea that u fall in too, is what u cant face the reality of super monster powers being a fact over our existence

so what believers accept from being superior as a monster u cant fight, u also accept from denying its fact then u wont mean smthg or smeone right or show the way of dealing right with others without being monster, u wont do that since u deny its true reason ways
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27-09-2013, 11:41 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
It's their pride and hubris of course Tongue

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27-09-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 09:51 AM)kengullette Wrote:  I went to lunch with a Christian
...
^
There's your first mistake.

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27-09-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Pride and Hubris
Interesting thought Absols! Unless I'm completely missing the point - but I think what Absols is getting at is this:

Do we disbelieve in god because we cannot accept that a monster such as himself has dominion over us? What would we be to do about it if he was? Since it doesn't square with our moral views on right and wrong, do we staunchly deny its existence because the thought of any truth to it is too disturbing?

Interesting concept!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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27-09-2013, 12:22 PM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 12:13 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Interesting thought Absols! Unless I'm completely missing the point - but I think what Absols is getting at is this:

Do we disbelieve in god because we cannot accept that a monster such as himself has dominion over us? What would we be to do about it if he was? Since it doesn't square with our moral views on right and wrong, do we staunchly deny its existence because the thought of any truth to it is too disturbing?

Interesting concept!

I've thought about that. So has the Westboro Baptist Church, and radical islamists. At least (for the sake of intellectual honesty) they stay true to the themes in the bible/koran/torah. I'll give them that. Fortunately, the amount of evidence for their god is exactly the same as the amount of evidence for any other god. So the concept is still inherently dumb.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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27-09-2013, 12:27 PM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 12:13 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Interesting thought Absols! Unless I'm completely missing the point - but I think what Absols is getting at is this:

Do we disbelieve in god because we cannot accept that a monster such as himself has dominion over us? What would we be to do about it if he was? Since it doesn't square with our moral views on right and wrong, do we staunchly deny its existence because the thought of any truth to it is too disturbing?

Interesting concept!

It's interesting that you think you can decode some absols. You might wanna talk to your psychologist about that. Big Grin

But, nah. Leads to more contradictions than even a theist can handle.

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27-09-2013, 01:02 PM
RE: Pride and Hubris
it is not about ur morality, it is more about the pardoxe of being then

if super power is to evil force, then being in objective constant fact is through that, when conscious beings is humans identities base, so the constant being base would b evil,

the fact that u can know that is very disturbing to face, by evil against it, even if u r free at a point like me and others out of realizing itself conscious right somwhere, it is too much to even think about facing it

but this doesnt justify worshipping the monster, nor denying its fact loudly

everything meant to do objectively like worship or public deny, in truth it would b as facing it from what truth known is not a depth it is the obvious always objective perspective

that is how a lot of people prefer not to mention anything about god or why, and have found the right way of expressions which are including those means right

from my perspective only evil people are noisy
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27-09-2013, 01:59 PM
RE: Pride and Hubris
Is there any such thing as a "debate" with a Christian? I thought a debate was a situation where both sides present ideas in an honest manner and are willing to change their position if differing views prove more viable.
I tend to see these types of exchanges as discussions between opposing viewpoints.
But I'm willing to be shown to be wrong...Big Grin
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