Pride and Hubris
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27-09-2013, 03:06 PM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 09:51 AM)kengullette Wrote:  He says that I am trying to use logic and reason to focus on the wrong things. He says it is my "pride and hubris" (arrogance and self-importance) that makes me do this. Instead, I should look at the lessons the Old Testament is teaching.

I said, "So the Old Testament stories are now the literal truth?" He was stumped. He wouldn't admit it wasn't literally true, but we are not supposed to focus on the little stuff like murder, baby killing and rape.

It's absolutely mind-boggling.

Tell him it is one thing to accept certain lessons the Old Testament teaches and quite another thing to accept the entire text as the divinely inspired word of God. Pride and Hubris have nothing to do with it.

Lesson can be evaluated and accepted or rejected piecemeal. If it is the divinely inspired word of God, then the whole thing, every story, every passage, and every word has to stand up to scrutiny.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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27-09-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 01:02 PM)absols Wrote:  it is not about ur morality, it is more about the pardoxe of being then

if super power is to evil force, then being in objective constant fact is through that, when conscious beings is humans identities base, so the constant being base would b evil,

the fact that u can know that is very disturbing to face, by evil against it, even if u r free at a point like me and others out of realizing itself conscious right somwhere, it is too much to even think about facing it

but this doesnt justify worshipping the monster, nor denying its fact loudly

everything meant to do objectively like worship or public deny, in truth it would b as facing it from what truth known is not a depth it is the obvious always objective perspective

that is how a lot of people prefer not to mention anything about god or why, and have found the right way of expressions which are including those means right

from my perspective only evil people are noisy

Ok, I think I pretty much understood this.

You say only evil people are noisy. Do you mean, in the context of what you said above, that people who speak out loudly are evil? Or maybe evil is not the word you meant to use?

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28-09-2013, 06:09 AM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2013 06:16 AM by absols.)
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 05:01 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ok, I think I pretty much understood this.

You say only evil people are noisy. Do you mean, in the context of what you said above, that people who speak out loudly are evil? Or maybe evil is not the word you meant to use?

wat allow me to mean anything i want with such poor vocabulary and grasp of english, is my skills in using right words

loud people are evil, preachers teachers businessmanagers stars doctors..everyone actually successful looking, and would justify himself positively like a reference of knowing certainly what is right about everything
but also what i mean, is ur fun ways, u r noisy in meaning to rest to have fun to talk to chat to fart..u act as if the whole space belongs to u or would learn from u or get smthg
but actually in truth, it reveals how when it comes to not having to defend ur positive possessions rights, so leting urself go naturally, u have no respect for anything as if it is all nothing but urself free expressions

how loud free expressions are evil, is out of the fact that life is evil powerful ways, so to b positive living objectively as openly being urself voice out, is being an evil living free will

that is why honest people know that they must act discreet fearing to meet the fact and also kind of sad look for others and everything rights, so u point us or them as the weak ones, while they are the most giving to everything constantly for sure, the superior positive free sense identity

n u r the inferior negative thing
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28-09-2013, 06:25 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 12:13 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Interesting thought Absols! Unless I'm completely missing the point - but I think what Absols is getting at is this:

Do we disbelieve in god because we cannot accept that a monster such as himself has dominion over us? What would we be to do about it if he was? Since it doesn't square with our moral views on right and wrong, do we staunchly deny its existence because the thought of any truth to it is too disturbing?

Interesting concept!

I do not believe in any gods because there is no evidence for their existence.

I object to religions because their 'holy books' are anything but.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-09-2013, 06:36 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
and while u r not believing in any god since no evidence, wat do u do
do u base ur life on what u dont believe

positively as being present urself wat did u do or do

it is freak that pride for giving a shape to another mean, as if it is doing anything

like he is suggesting, that if there would b evidence he would believe in god

and that religious books would represent a certain value if everything would b confirming what it says

so people can sit on their asses like that for years, enjoying doing no valuable thing, since it doesnt matter
since matter is their will, and matter is abundant everywhere
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28-09-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(28-09-2013 06:09 AM)absols Wrote:  
(27-09-2013 05:01 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ok, I think I pretty much understood this.

You say only evil people are noisy. Do you mean, in the context of what you said above, that people who speak out loudly are evil? Or maybe evil is not the word you meant to use?

wat allow me to mean anything i want with such poor vocabulary and grasp of english, is my skills in using right words

loud people are evil, preachers teachers businessmanagers stars doctors..everyone actually successful looking, and would justify himself positively like a reference of knowing certainly what is right about everything
but also what i mean, is ur fun ways, u r noisy in meaning to rest to have fun to talk to chat to fart..u act as if the whole space belongs to u or would learn from u or get smthg
but actually in truth, it reveals how when it comes to not having to defend ur positive possessions rights, so leting urself go naturally, u have no respect for anything as if it is all nothing but urself free expressions

how loud free expressions are evil, is out of the fact that life is evil powerful ways, so to b positive living objectively as openly being urself voice out, is being an evil living free will

that is why honest people know that they must act discreet fearing to meet the fact and also kind of sad look for others and everything rights, so u point us or them as the weak ones, while they are the most giving to everything constantly for sure, the superior positive free sense identity

n u r the inferior negative thing

Well, absols, I disagree. I think it is important to speak out. If no one ever spoke out, no one would ever grow and learn.

And it is especially the ones who are considered weak who must speak out.

And, Absols, you are speaking out very loudly here. So by your own definition - you are evil?

That makes no sense.

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29-09-2013, 05:59 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(27-09-2013 09:51 AM)kengullette Wrote:  I went to lunch with a Christian friend and we debated. I asked him to tell me what is moral and praiseworthy about Moses ordering the murder of women and children (except the young virgin girls which he gave to his men) in Numbers 31 verses 6 through 18.

He says that I am trying to use logic and reason to focus on the wrong things. He says it is my "pride and hubris" (arrogance and self-importance) that makes me do this. Instead, I should look at the lessons the Old Testament is teaching.

I said, "So the Old Testament stories are now the literal truth?" He was stumped. He wouldn't admit it wasn't literally true, but we are not supposed to focus on the little stuff like murder, baby killing and rape.

It's absolutely mind-boggling.

If the U.S. sent troops to defeat Pakistan, and when we beat their army, President Obama went over and ordered the killing of all women and male children, and told the troops that they could take virgin girls for themselves, the world would turn on us, and so would all the Christians in America. What is wrong with them in not being able to apply this same reality check to the Bible?
Its a pretty horrible story. I am not going to deny that God commanded the genocide of the Canaanites. The reasons were similar to the flood. The terrible wickedness of mankind was the cause of their destruction in the flood. The terrible wickedness of the Canaanites was the cause of God's command to destroy the Canaanites. God originally did not intend for the Israelites to have to kill the Canaanites by their own hand he originally intended to destroy them through other means. I forget why he decided to command the Israelites to destroy them. Anyway we have to understand the historical perspective. In those days and in most of history, men went to war for the spoils. They raped pillaged, plundered. That was the way all of our ancestors behaved.

God however commanded the Israelites to NOT rape, not plunder the cities or keep anything of value, not even the animals. God wanted total destruction of that civilisation. This was too much for the Israelites of course who decided to keep all of these things as spoils of war. Moses, as a concession allowed them to keep only the female virgins. There is no indication that they were raped. In fact we know from other passages that they were married and the men were committed to care for them.
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29-09-2013, 06:14 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(29-09-2013 05:59 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This was too much for the Israelites of course who decided to keep all of these things as spoils of war. Moses, as a concession allowed them to keep only the female virgins. There is no indication that they were raped. In fact we know from other passages that they were married and the men were committed to care for them.

From a Darwinian prospective...wiping out everyone except the female virgins is a pretty good move. The addition of all those females to the population adds a lot of genetic diversity to the gene pool. Since the female virgins would not likely mount any type of significant rebellion there is little risk in letting them live...unlike the male population who would welcome the chance to live to fight another day.

If this were a video game where your goal was to make your people come out on top, the optimal move could very well be to kill everyone you conquer except the young females.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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29-09-2013, 08:06 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(29-09-2013 05:59 AM)excubitor Wrote:  we have to understand the historical perspective. In those days and in most of history, men went to war for the spoils. They raped pillaged, plundered. That was the way all of our ancestors behaved.

(29-09-2013 05:59 AM)excubitor Wrote:  There is no indication that they were raped.

Face, meet palm. Weeping

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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29-09-2013, 08:58 AM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2013 09:15 AM by absols.)
RE: Pride and Hubris
(28-09-2013 07:01 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, absols, I disagree. I think it is important to speak out. If no one ever spoke out, no one would ever grow and learn.

And it is especially the ones who are considered weak who must speak out.

And, Absols, you are speaking out very loudly here. So by your own definition - you are evil?

That makes no sense.

it is incredible how far u reverse any point willingly to mean ur life

there is no noise in writing or reading miss shit, on the contrary it is know that words spaces are always for none, that is why words are always pointing smthg right but also objectively the only reality free fact, u prove to what extent u have no relation with word while insisting to act as if u can write about everything

second, being weak is not a fake situation like urs, when fake by definition is to enjoy what u got
weak is true perspective about another being or from itself observation, then it cant speak out even,
saying that im speaking loud prove the evil shit u r, when obviously im giving truth of everything that i have no relation with and trying to get to any absolute justification of logical sources, it says how far im in hell situation that i cant speak for myself, while forced to make big turns for nothing but to resist to all shit over me invasion of my space rights

while loudness was meant about ur happiness your ways of being urselves life one together

of course if weak people could shout they should scream and never stop, that would b a noise everything should amplify for conscious rights, there is no more beautiful sight then millions walking in street shouting for rights, weak people can speak out only if they can b together
but u evil agents and evil sources of all manage to isolate each right one till its death of shit powers on him

wat prove the most the evil shit u r, is what u clearly wanted to take advantage from seeing that i mentionned myself situation, to kill me directly, reducing me to what i said about myself, so to erase all what is known being my situation fact of worse crimes ever live on a conscious body, which doesnt concern anyone nor anybody else, so to dare talk about me publically to force to lies, so i would b weaken by what there is no word for my situation, and u jump to take advantage of that to legitimize slavery and ones values abuse for powers glory, while all u care about is to give all absolute shits i say to ur god but hypocritly when u think i accepted to lie about myself, all my posts about absolutes are all to me only piece of lowest woman on board, fuck u and ur jesus expectations of getting from hell on me to defend worse crimes for ur comfortable life

any reality is for sure gonna b worse as what i see is always the truth before it becomes obvious
it is only u and ur life in selling lies with ur jesus, it is like usual shit satanic life u r already fuck u, of course for any free sense there cant b more irritating then to accept ur existence as present thing

it is the reverse, it is u that should b the weak unable to speak and move anywhere while being stepped on by everything, pointed as sick thing for the inferiors u r
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