Pride and Hubris
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01-10-2013, 04:37 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(01-10-2013 04:30 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 07:25 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Actually it looks like NoSkyDaddy already ripped your pitiful ass a new asshole, so I needn't bother. Drinking Beverage

Are are, quite simply, sick in the fucking head.
For gross crudity and almost unbelievable insult you will be ignored from here on out.
Again, this post was another example of the extreme debasement of people who take on the atheistic non-belief system. They say that beasts are their ancestors and so little by little they become beasts like their ancestors.

I put Evolution Kills on my ignore list a while ago. The guy is a dick.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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01-10-2013, 04:51 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(30-09-2013 04:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The reason is that you have social mores, most of which have come from centuries of our ancestors living out the principles of marriage outlined in the New Testament.

I'm sure at least some of the mothers of the virgins probably told their daughters stories about how they themselves were abducted/traded from another tribe. Back in the day, this is how you brought genetic diversity into your tribe. There is a little truth to the stories of caveman finding a wife, clubbing her unconscious, and dragging her back to the cave by her hair.

Brutal by todays standards yes, but taking young women from a another tribe was a very effective technique which enhanced your own tribes survivability. What good would it do humanity to have 20th century morality back in the old old testament if doing so caused humanity to die out?

Provide evidence they even knew what "genetic diversity" was "back in the day", or had any notion what that concept was, prior to Gregor Mendel. You people make up shit an astounding rate. The idiocy of these fucking believers is mind boggling.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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01-10-2013, 04:54 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(30-09-2013 07:01 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I deny that the scripture condones rape in any context whatsoever.
(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

These were not consensual "marriages". These were prisoners assigned forcefully to serve as sexual property. This by any just standard is rape.
It does not say property, it says wife.

(30-09-2013 07:01 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  Or, how about this gem?

(Judges 21:19-23 NLT) Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them.
What were you saying about scripture and rape? Ah yes, I remember: "I deny that the scripture condones rape in any context whatsoever". Kidnapping to boot.
You are reading this within the worst possible light. The people of Israel at this point wanted their daughters to be married to the Benjamites but had previously made vows never to allow them to marry them. So they made up this scenario whereby they would allow the women to be taken. They even told the Benjamites to go and take the women. The NLT is a disgrace. Read the passage in the KJV it does not say kidnapped. The KJV also gives the sign by which a woman would communicate that she was to be taken. She was to dance at the celebration.
So this was all done with the oversight of all the tribes of Israel. There was no war following this to indicate the outrage of the fathers of the daughters of Israel. It was all very amicable and the men of Benjamin went back to their land with their new wives and rebuilt the cities of their land.
To interpret this story any other way is to imagine that the men of Israel would allow their women to be raped and kidnapped and not react in outrage and vengeance. The notion is absurd.

(30-09-2013 07:01 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Deut 22:23-26 specifically condemns rape and gives the death penalty to rapists. I also deny that the scripture condones forced marriages.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
" If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife."

This is referring to adultery. Note the specification of "betrothed". This is a violation of another man's property as specifically stated in the text. And don't BS about it not saying "property". Other verses specifically mention selling daughters for wives.
It does not say "property" and you know it. Other verses do not mention the selling of wives. They are dowries which were used as an endowment for the new family to get established.

(30-09-2013 07:01 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  An unmarried/un-betrothed woman however....

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

Not only is this a forced marriage, but the victim is forced to marry the rapist!!
Again. The NLT is one of the most corrupt translations that you can find. Read it in the KJV or the DR.
28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

"Take hold of her" does not mean rape. It is talking about a passionate and illicit sexual encounter. It is true that in this case the pair must be married but this is hardly a forced marriage. They already consummated the marriage before the legal binding of marriage. This edict was to protect the woman who has lost her virginity. In those days in all cultures of the world virginity was valued by prospective husbands and a woman who lost her virginity and was not married was in disgrace. So this law prevented the kind of behaviour which exists today whereby the sex act is utterly divorced from the idea of a lifetime of marital commitment. The young men of that society knew that if they were going to go for a tumble with a girl then they better be prepared to marry her and provide for her all of her life.
You can be sure that this prevented promiscuity, and rape would have been almost non-existent in that society whereas it is utterly out of control in ours. So which is the more humane society?

Rape is condemned in no uncertain terms by me. Rape is condemned in no uncertain terms by the Church. Rape is condemned in no uncertain terms in the scriptures.
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01-10-2013, 05:00 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(01-10-2013 04:51 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 04:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm sure at least some of the mothers of the virgins probably told their daughters stories about how they themselves were abducted/traded from another tribe. Back in the day, this is how you brought genetic diversity into your tribe. There is a little truth to the stories of caveman finding a wife, clubbing her unconscious, and dragging her back to the cave by her hair.

Brutal by todays standards yes, but taking young women from a another tribe was a very effective technique which enhanced your own tribes survivability. What good would it do humanity to have 20th century morality back in the old old testament if doing so caused humanity to die out?

Provide evidence they even knew what "genetic diversity" was "back in the day", or had any notion what that concept was, prior to Gregor Mendel. You people make up shit an astounding rate. The idiocy of these fucking believers is mind boggling.

You probably want to screw your sister or your mom but you're a ding danged pyscho so there is no surprise there. Most people are normal and naturally aren't attracted to close relatives. Most people look outside their immediate family when seeking a mate.

Back in the day, they didn't need to know about genetic diversity. They just needed to know that girl is hot and she ain't my first cousin.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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01-10-2013, 05:01 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(30-09-2013 07:01 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  If an animal wants a female mate it just goes and takes it. As atheists that is your standard. As we are animals in your eyes with survival of the fittest why can't we just go out and take whatever woman we want to perpetuate our genes?

As animals with an evolved sense of morality, we exclude individuals who create social discord and resentments from the gene pool. This includes thieves, murderers, rapists to name a few. They are systematically separated from the group in increasing levels of severity commensurate with the severity and repetition of their crimes. Our species is socially interdependent. We rely on our social group to survive and protect that social unity and survival thus. Smartass
From which lower form of creature did humans evolve a lower form of morality from. Even the notion of morality is a complete opposite to the theories of evolution which take wherever possible to take whatever resource is at hand at the expense of the weaker creature. An absolute 180 degree turn from evolution to moral society.
Why should rape cause social discord? Baboons rape the whole herd of females and chase away or kill their male rivals. They live in social groups and survive partly because the strength of the superior male gene results in a stronger progeny. Why should it be any different among humans?
Its incredible how Christians allow themselves to become defenders of the faith all the time without ever turning the tables and asking atheists to defend their hideous ancestors. My ancestors might be Ancient Israel but at least they were not baboons or some other brutish animal.
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01-10-2013, 05:09 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
Forced marriage :
Deuteronomy 22
28 If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Blaming the victim :
Deuteronomy Chapter 22
23 If a damsel [that is] a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, [being] in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Judges 21:
21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.


Numbers Chapter 31
7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; [namely], Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9 And the children of Israel took [all] the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, [both] of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which [are] by Jordan [near] Jericho.
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, [with] the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, an there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Deuteronomy Chapter 20
10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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01-10-2013, 05:24 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(30-09-2013 04:30 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 04:16 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  This is easily one of the dumbest and most ignorantly offensive things I've ever seen a theist write on this site, and I've been here long enough to remember Egor...

I'll give this a proper and vetted rebuttal when I have more time at home.
Have a cry little petal. Obviously your non-belief system is getting a hammering.
Go home where you can find a safe familiar chair, grab yourself a stiff drink, muster your inner fortitude and see if you can pull yourself together.
God forbid that I should receive a half baked, uncontrolled, ill conceived post from an atheist.

Congratulations. You have just clearly announced that you are a complete asshole.

Well done. Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2013, 05:26 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(01-10-2013 04:30 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 07:25 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Actually it looks like NoSkyDaddy already ripped your pitiful ass a new asshole, so I needn't bother. Drinking Beverage

Are are, quite simply, sick in the fucking head.
For gross crudity and almost unbelievable insult you will be ignored from here on out.
Again, this post was another example of the extreme debasement of people who take on the atheistic non-belief system. They say that beasts are their ancestors and so little by little they become beasts like their ancestors.

Congratulations. You have just clearly demonstrated that you are a moron.

Well done. Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2013, 05:28 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(01-10-2013 05:00 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 04:51 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Provide evidence they even knew what "genetic diversity" was "back in the day", or had any notion what that concept was, prior to Gregor Mendel. You people make up shit an astounding rate. The idiocy of these fucking believers is mind boggling.

You probably want to screw your sister or your mom but you're a ding danged pyscho so there is no surprise there. Most people are normal and naturally aren't attracted to close relatives. Most people look outside their immediate family when seeking a mate.

Back in the day, they didn't need to know about genetic diversity. They just needed to know that girl is hot and she ain't my first cousin.

Thanks for admitting you have no clue what they thought, and had no clue what that concept was. Sexual attraction is in no way the same as "genetic diversity".
In fact we know they thought the entire genome/person" of the infant was contained in the male's "seed".

BlowJob calling people "psycho". Now that's ironic.
(Jebus no likey.)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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01-10-2013, 05:29 AM
RE: Pride and Hubris
(01-10-2013 05:01 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 07:01 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  As animals with an evolved sense of morality, we exclude individuals who create social discord and resentments from the gene pool. This includes thieves, murderers, rapists to name a few. They are systematically separated from the group in increasing levels of severity commensurate with the severity and repetition of their crimes. Our species is socially interdependent. We rely on our social group to survive and protect that social unity and survival thus. Smartass
From which lower form of creature did humans evolve a lower form of morality from. Even the notion of morality is a complete opposite to the theories of evolution which take wherever possible to take whatever resource is at hand at the expense of the weaker creature. An absolute 180 degree turn from evolution to moral society.
Why should rape cause social discord? Baboons rape the whole herd of females and chase away or kill their male rivals. They live in social groups and survive partly because the strength of the superior male gene results in a stronger progeny. Why should it be any different among humans?
Its incredible how Christians allow themselves to become defenders of the faith all the time without ever turning the tables and asking atheists to defend their hideous ancestors. My ancestors might be Ancient Israel but at least they were not baboons or some other brutish animal.

Congratulations. You have just demonstrated complete ignorance of evolution.

Well done. Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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