Priest Poisons Congregation
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15-02-2017, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2017 08:00 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 07:18 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  "Grace Living Hope Ministries" such an innocuous name for something that will literally poison you. I can't imagine the sort of blind faith/idiocy one would have to knowingly drink rat poison like this.

There are Christians who also handle venomous snakes. It says in the Bible if you trust God you will be A-okay when handling snakes or drinking poison. There are people who take the Bible literally and this is the result.

"And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” -Mark 16:17-18
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15-02-2017, 07:58 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
Actually, that whole section was a later addition.

One is tempted to wonder if some Roman wise guy slipped it in there and said "let's see how stupid these shitheads really are."

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15-02-2017, 08:04 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 07:49 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 07:18 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  "Grace Living Hope Ministries" such an innocuous name for something that will literally poison you. I can't imagine the sort of blind faith/idiocy one would have to knowingly drink rat poison like this.

There are Christians who also handle venomous snakes. It says in the Bible if you trust God you will be A-okay when handling snakes or drinking poison. There are people who take the Bible literally and this is the result.

"And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands fon the sick, and they will recover.” -Mark 16:17-18

A fair point, later addition as Minimalist pointed out or not*, if one does take everything literally, you're right, they should be okay in their beliefs. It just boggles my mind; because even at my most fundamentalist Baptist, never thought that part, nor the part also in Mark (11:23) about being able to tell a mountain to throw itself into the sea and it will if you just believe hard enough, was a literal thing.

Though then I suppose one could argue, "you just said Jesus was a liar", to which I would reply that he was speaking in allusions, to which one could say "that's awfully convenient, don't you think?" to which I would go, "yes, but my denomination doesn't take everything in there literally", to which someone could go, "Damn liberal Christians are so slippery and hard to pen down and just aren't honest in their beliefs to themselves" to which I would go, "Maybe, dunno." Tongue Not that you'd do all that Jenny, just saying that the arguments could be made.

*Though the Gospels were kinda written after Paul's letters, so they in themselves, untouched and unadded to, are in a way "later additions", I suppose.

Edit: Also, growing up in WV, I never knew anyone who went to one of the state's infamous snake handling churches. Though I'd love to observe from a distance at some point, more of a social science curiosity than a religious one.

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15-02-2017, 08:32 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 08:04 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 07:49 PM)jennybee Wrote:  There are Christians who also handle venomous snakes. It says in the Bible if you trust God you will be A-okay when handling snakes or drinking poison. There are people who take the Bible literally and this is the result.

"And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands fon the sick, and they will recover.” -Mark 16:17-18

A fair point, later addition as Minimalist pointed out or not*, if one does take everything literally, you're right, they should be okay in their beliefs. It just boggles my mind; because even at my most fundamentalist Baptist, never thought that part, nor the part also in Mark (11:23) about being able to tell a mountain to throw itself into the sea and it will if you just believe hard enough, was a literal thing.

Though then I suppose one could argue, "you just said Jesus was a liar", to which I would reply that he was speaking in allusions, to which one could say "that's awfully convenient, don't you think?" to which I would go, "yes, but my denomination doesn't take everything in there literally", to which someone could go, "Damn liberal Christians are so slippery and hard to pen down and just aren't honest in their beliefs to themselves" to which I would go, "Maybe, dunno." Tongue Not that you'd do all that Jenny, just saying that the arguments could be made.

*Though the Gospels were kinda written after Paul's letters, so they in themselves, untouched and unadded to, are in a way "later additions", I suppose.

Edit: Also, growing up in WV, I never knew anyone who went to one of the state's infamous snake handling churches. Though I'd love to observe from a distance at some point, more of a social science curiosity than a religious one.

A slippery slope indeed Tongue I was a Christian myself. I get all the concessions.

Maybe something to ponder: If the Bible is the true Word of God, why are we the ones having to make concessions and offer explanations for God's writings? Shouldn't his prose--his Book to the world--be something clearly understood by all without the use of literary devices? Not everyone understands literary devices or how and why they are employed. A poor, uneducated group of people who are told a book is written by a magic deity (via others of course) may actually take it literally. That seems rather irresponsible of God to allow instances of this to happen due to his insistence on the use of literary devices.
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15-02-2017, 08:46 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 08:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 08:04 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  A fair point, later addition as Minimalist pointed out or not*, if one does take everything literally, you're right, they should be okay in their beliefs. It just boggles my mind; because even at my most fundamentalist Baptist, never thought that part, nor the part also in Mark (11:23) about being able to tell a mountain to throw itself into the sea and it will if you just believe hard enough, was a literal thing.

Though then I suppose one could argue, "you just said Jesus was a liar", to which I would reply that he was speaking in allusions, to which one could say "that's awfully convenient, don't you think?" to which I would go, "yes, but my denomination doesn't take everything in there literally", to which someone could go, "Damn liberal Christians are so slippery and hard to pen down and just aren't honest in their beliefs to themselves" to which I would go, "Maybe, dunno." Tongue Not that you'd do all that Jenny, just saying that the arguments could be made.

*Though the Gospels were kinda written after Paul's letters, so they in themselves, untouched and unadded to, are in a way "later additions", I suppose.

Edit: Also, growing up in WV, I never knew anyone who went to one of the state's infamous snake handling churches. Though I'd love to observe from a distance at some point, more of a social science curiosity than a religious one.

A slippery slope indeed Tongue I was a Christian myself. I get all the concessions.

Maybe something to ponder: If the Bible is the true Word of God, why are we the ones having to make concessions and offer explanations for God's writings? Shouldn't his prose--his Book to the world--be something clearly understood by all without the use of literary devices? Not everyone understands literary devices or how and why they are employed. A poor, uneducated group of people who are told a book is written by a magic deity (via others of course) may actually take it literally. That seems rather irresponsible of God to allow instances of this to happen due to his insistence on the use of literary devices.

Another thing to ponder, in addition to blame or responsibility or accuracy: Utility.

If it's so easy to misinterpret it despite honestly seeking to understand it, how much practical value does it have?

EDIT: Yes, have ALL the concessions!
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15-02-2017, 08:49 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 08:46 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 08:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  A slippery slope indeed Tongue I was a Christian myself. I get all the concessions.

Maybe something to ponder: If the Bible is the true Word of God, why are we the ones having to make concessions and offer explanations for God's writings? Shouldn't his prose--his Book to the world--be something clearly understood by all without the use of literary devices? Not everyone understands literary devices or how and why they are employed. A poor, uneducated group of people who are told a book is written by a magic deity (via others of course) may actually take it literally. That seems rather irresponsible of God to allow instances of this to happen due to his insistence on the use of literary devices.

Another thing to ponder, in addition to blame or responsibility or accuracy: Utility.

If it's so easy to misinterpret it despite honestly seeking to understand it, how much practical value does it have?

That's a ponderous thought to be ponderously pondered. Big Grin
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15-02-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 08:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 08:04 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  A fair point, later addition as Minimalist pointed out or not*, if one does take everything literally, you're right, they should be okay in their beliefs. It just boggles my mind; because even at my most fundamentalist Baptist, never thought that part, nor the part also in Mark (11:23) about being able to tell a mountain to throw itself into the sea and it will if you just believe hard enough, was a literal thing.

Though then I suppose one could argue, "you just said Jesus was a liar", to which I would reply that he was speaking in allusions, to which one could say "that's awfully convenient, don't you think?" to which I would go, "yes, but my denomination doesn't take everything in there literally", to which someone could go, "Damn liberal Christians are so slippery and hard to pen down and just aren't honest in their beliefs to themselves" to which I would go, "Maybe, dunno." Tongue Not that you'd do all that Jenny, just saying that the arguments could be made.

*Though the Gospels were kinda written after Paul's letters, so they in themselves, untouched and unadded to, are in a way "later additions", I suppose.

Edit: Also, growing up in WV, I never knew anyone who went to one of the state's infamous snake handling churches. Though I'd love to observe from a distance at some point, more of a social science curiosity than a religious one.

A slippery slope indeed Tongue I was a Christian myself. I get all the concessions.

Maybe something to ponder: If the Bible is the true Word of God, why are we the ones having to make concessions and offer explanations for God's writings? Shouldn't his prose--his Book to the world--be something clearly understood by all without the use of literary devices? Not everyone understands literary devices or how and why they are employed. A poor, uneducated group of people who are told a book is written by a magic deity (via others of course) may actually take it literally. That seems rather irresponsible of God to allow instances of this to happen due to his insistence on the use of literary devices.

Part of being perfect is being a perfect communicator. 40,000+ denominations speak to that point better than I ever could.
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15-02-2017, 09:00 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 08:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 08:04 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  A fair point, later addition as Minimalist pointed out or not*, if one does take everything literally, you're right, they should be okay in their beliefs. It just boggles my mind; because even at my most fundamentalist Baptist, never thought that part, nor the part also in Mark (11:23) about being able to tell a mountain to throw itself into the sea and it will if you just believe hard enough, was a literal thing.

Though then I suppose one could argue, "you just said Jesus was a liar", to which I would reply that he was speaking in allusions, to which one could say "that's awfully convenient, don't you think?" to which I would go, "yes, but my denomination doesn't take everything in there literally", to which someone could go, "Damn liberal Christians are so slippery and hard to pen down and just aren't honest in their beliefs to themselves" to which I would go, "Maybe, dunno." Tongue Not that you'd do all that Jenny, just saying that the arguments could be made.

*Though the Gospels were kinda written after Paul's letters, so they in themselves, untouched and unadded to, are in a way "later additions", I suppose.

Edit: Also, growing up in WV, I never knew anyone who went to one of the state's infamous snake handling churches. Though I'd love to observe from a distance at some point, more of a social science curiosity than a religious one.

A slippery slope indeed Tongue I was a Christian myself. I get all the concessions.

Maybe something to ponder: If the Bible is the true Word of God, why are we the ones having to make concessions and offer explanations for God's writings? Shouldn't his prose--his Book to the world--be something clearly understood by all without the use of literary devices? Not everyone understands literary devices or how and why they are employed. A poor, uneducated group of people who are told a book is written by a magic deity (via others of course) may actually take it literally. That seems rather irresponsible of God to allow instances of this to happen due to his insistence on the use of literary devices.

See Jenny, you're one of the more sneaky ones (and I mean that in a complimentary manner, because it's unintentional and not malicious in the slightest, but born out of compassion, so sneaky probably isn't the word I'm looking for); unlike say Muffs going "why the fuck believe that?" or something, it's like, "No I get it, but here, let me phrase things so reasonably and nicely and ever so reasonably and nicely point out the holes in the argument." Laugh out load

All that said, yes, you would get it as a former Christian and following the slippery slope downhill! And I have, as well, to an extent, from American Baptist to Catholic, based on things like the understanding of John 6 and was Christ using literary device, or was He being literal? Who actually compiled the Bible and still was connected to those people who did? From my own understanding and review of pro and con apologetics, who seems to be closest to what's in the Bible? Etc. Of course, that ignores the much more slippery slope of the fact it begins with a prepositional view that the Bible is true.

Also, that wonderful second paragraph? Something I struggle with, especially doing a once a day Bible reading thing. As Saint Paul says, in 1 Corinthians, God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. But boy does His book get confusing and boring at times. Or the Barna Group is wrong about the whole 40,000+ denominations thing. But somehow doubting that.

(Now, I feel an urge to go hold a crucifix up to Bart Ehrman's work and yell, "Get behind me Satan"...just kidding.)

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15-02-2017, 09:24 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 09:00 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 08:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  A slippery slope indeed Tongue I was a Christian myself. I get all the concessions.

Maybe something to ponder: If the Bible is the true Word of God, why are we the ones having to make concessions and offer explanations for God's writings? Shouldn't his prose--his Book to the world--be something clearly understood by all without the use of literary devices? Not everyone understands literary devices or how and why they are employed. A poor, uneducated group of people who are told a book is written by a magic deity (via others of course) may actually take it literally. That seems rather irresponsible of God to allow instances of this to happen due to his insistence on the use of literary devices.

See Jenny, you're one of the more sneaky ones (and I mean that in a complimentary manner, because it's unintentional and not malicious in the slightest, but born out of compassion, so sneaky probably isn't the word I'm looking for); unlike say Muffs going "why the fuck believe that?" or something, it's like, "No I get it, but here, let me phrase things so reasonably and nicely and ever so reasonably and nicely point out the holes in the argument." Laugh out load

All that said, yes, you would get it as a former Christian and following the slippery slope downhill! And I have, as well, to an extent, from American Baptist to Catholic, based on things like the understanding of John 6 and was Christ using literary device, or was He being literal? Who actually compiled the Bible and still was connected to those people who did? From my own understanding and review of pro and con apologetics, who seems to be closest to what's in the Bible? Etc. Of course, that ignores the much more slippery slope of the fact it begins with a prepositional view that the Bible is true.

Also, that wonderful second paragraph? Something I struggle with, especially doing a once a day Bible reading thing. As Saint Paul says, in 1 Corinthians, God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. But boy does His book get confusing and boring at times. Or the Barna Group is wrong about the whole 40,000+ denominations thing. But somehow doubting that.

(Now, I feel an urge to go hold a crucifix up to Bart Ehrman's work and yell, "Get behind me Satan"...just kidding.)

You seriously need a good Bible Commentary as a companion to the Bible. There's no way you can attempt to understand it on your own. That's another thing to ponder. The Bible is extremely difficult to understand on its own due to all of the cultural and historical references.

The Bible also needed to be translated and retranslated into a variety of different languages after God's meltdown at the Tower of Babel and his whole confounding of languages thing. Why do this if you want people to know you as a magical being and heed your word?
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15-02-2017, 09:31 PM
RE: Priest Poisons Congregation
(15-02-2017 03:32 PM)pablo Wrote:  A priest in South Africa told his congregation they were "above death" and gave them water laced with rat poison. Five died.

Facepalm

Friend is raising money for a priest in Africa to combat witchdoctors.

It hurts my head how the catholic church just preys on the weak minded.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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