Prisons.
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03-02-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: Prisons.
(03-02-2013 02:50 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(03-02-2013 02:44 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Hard do know when psychos ?are serious or not! Sleepy
What about the interim period, before the act Hobo

[Image: tumblr_lvxb773Qwu1qalmnt.gif]
Good clue they're pretty damn serious.

(Plus, bemore seemed to have no problem figuring it out Tongue )
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03-02-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: Prisons.
(03-02-2013 02:56 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(03-02-2013 02:50 PM)Vera Wrote:  What about the interim period, before the act Hobo

[Image: tumblr_lvxb773Qwu1qalmnt.gif]
Good clue they're pretty damn serious.

(Plus, bemore seemed to have no problem figuring it out Tongue )
Quick reply so stuffed up my formatting. Who wrote the Bemore comment?
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03-02-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: Prisons.
Haha! Well if you don't remember writing it, then it must've been me.

As for the original question - if you see them trying to hide a hatchet - there's another good clue for you. Or if they come to tea wearing nylon overalls...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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03-02-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Prisons.
(03-02-2013 03:07 PM)Vera Wrote:  Haha! Well if you don't remember writing it, then it must've been me.

As for the original question - if you see them trying to hide a hatchet - there's another good clue for you. Or if they come to tea wearing nylon overalls...
Im' not all too much into playing childish games.................... Wink
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03-02-2013, 06:42 PM
RE: Prisons.
I don't like the idea of prisons. I think to a certain degree they are necessary, but I think we put to much weight on punishment.
Rather then focusing on punishment a far better cause of action would be on rehabilitation. I think that is where the future is and I think that is where we need to be heading.

In a criminals life there is usually a whole string of events that result in them going to prison for a long term.
That often starts as a child with a hrrible up-bringing, then moves to schools not doing enough, employers not willing to employe them etc.. the prior effects the next step in that persons life. Eventually you get to a point where they have no education, they're unemployable, perhaps gotten into gangs and stuff etc..
Chain reaction. this effects this which effects this which effects this etc..

What our justice system focuses on is the very end of that chain, the part after they commited a crime.
What I think our justice system, or at least the government, should be focusing on is the much earlier steps (well I think they should focus on all stages, but more so the early ones), such as the troubled home and up-bringing of the child or a child failing in the education system.
You need to treat the root cause of the problem as to change the way that chain reaction occurs. So if you can get children into schools and get them to learn then they can get qualifications and then get jobs etc..

I think if you are at a point where someone has commited a crime then you have failed to address the issues in that persons life sooner. And in doing so, if they do commit a crime then I think instead of sending them to jail to sit around and do nothing you need to be training these people. Getting them to elarn trades, while in prison, so that when they leave prison they have something to go into and wont reoffend.
I know they do this already but it's currently not good enough, prisons should be doing this with all it's prisoners.

I just think there are two types of criminals. 1) The type I've been talking about, coming from troubled/poor background, poor education etc.. etc.. and effectivley being forced into crime as the only option.
And 2) The just fucking horrible people whoms nature it is to harm people.

I think the vast majority of criminals are type 1. BUT if the government re-focused it's efforts I think it would be possible to get it to a point where the only type we are locking up is type2.


ALSO, this is why I oppose private prisons. They have absolutely no insentive to rehabilitate.

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03-02-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: Prisons.
(03-02-2013 06:42 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I don't like the idea of prisons. I think to a certain degree they are necessary, but I think we put to much weight on punishment.
Rather then focusing on punishment a far better cause of action would be on rehabilitation. I think that is where the future is and I think that is where we need to be heading.

In a criminals life there is usually a whole string of events that result in them going to prison for a long term.
That often starts as a child with a hrrible up-bringing, then moves to schools not doing enough, employers not willing to employe them etc.. the prior effects the next step in that persons life. Eventually you get to a point where they have no education, they're unemployable, perhaps gotten into gangs and stuff etc..
Chain reaction. this effects this which effects this which effects this etc..

What our justice system focuses on is the very end of that chain, the part after they commited a crime.
What I think our justice system, or at least the government, should be focusing on is the much earlier steps (well I think they should focus on all stages, but more so the early ones), such as the troubled home and up-bringing of the child or a child failing in the education system.
You need to treat the root cause of the problem as to change the way that chain reaction occurs. So if you can get children into schools and get them to learn then they can get qualifications and then get jobs etc..

I think if you are at a point where someone has commited a crime then you have failed to address the issues in that persons life sooner. And in doing so, if they do commit a crime then I think instead of sending them to jail to sit around and do nothing you need to be training these people. Getting them to elarn trades, while in prison, so that when they leave prison they have something to go into and wont reoffend.
I know they do this already but it's currently not good enough, prisons should be doing this with all it's prisoners.

I just think there are two types of criminals. 1) The type I've been talking about, coming from troubled/poor background, poor education etc.. etc.. and effectivley being forced into crime as the only option.
And 2) The just fucking horrible people whoms nature it is to harm people.

I think the vast majority of criminals are type 1. BUT if the government re-focused it's efforts I think it would be possible to get it to a point where the only type we are locking up is type2.


ALSO, this is why I oppose private prisons. They have absolutely no insentive to rehabilitate.

Fuck it; I'm moving to New Zealand.
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I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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03-02-2013, 07:02 PM
RE: Prisons.
(03-02-2013 09:32 AM)bemore Wrote:  TBH this angers me. Not the fact they they are going to make things "tougher" for the people in the prison system... but the fact that they address these issues RATHER than face the issues that PUT PEOPLE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I have a lot of friends who have been through the prison system... it is a joke... it is no deterrent and TBH they could make people do hard labour and that STILL wouldnt stop people.

So before I ask for other peoples thoughts I will state that I think that the prison system is just a band-aid/plaster treating a symptom of a much bigger problem of societys ills. That whilst we focus on "punishing" people we will forever be blind to how the people we are "punishing" actually got there in the first place.
You have a lot of valid point that I agree with. But lets not over look the fact that you have people that belong there, and should have it harder than what they have. When i hear people boasting about how they don't fear going to jail due to it being easy living, that is a problem. What is it that people go to prison to get educated when they have the same option on the outside. Of course I'm oversimplifying a complex issue, but that, and other questions have to asked. Despite all examples, why are people choosing to do crimes that will put them behind bars. We will never be without crime, but in my opinion, it doesn't have to be as high as it is.

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03-02-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: Prisons.
Good points. Although I disagree with the claim that there are people who simply pop out of the womb evil. There are a lot of people pushing the idea that genetics plays a large part in whether or not a person becomes immoral or evil but the evidence doesn't support those claims. I would also argue that the best thing the state can do for children and for humanity writ large is to GTFO, as it were.

The people who call themselves government don't and can't prevent anything. All they can do is react and the only tools they use when they react are punitive. And in a nutshell, it is punitive behavior that causes the problems to begin with. For instance, you mentioned that the government could do something more for kids in school. Well, by the time a child reaches school age, his/her personality is already developed. i.e., if the person has been raised in a violent household, has been neglected as an infant etc, the negative affects of that treatment have already been set. School can't help at that point. Likewise, you can teach a criminal all the job skills in the world, but if the person is not psychologically capable of peaceful interaction with others, those skills are for naught. The only way to solve the damage done by early childhood trauma is psychotherapy and the only way that can help is if the person is interested in being helped. So yeah, even in a more peaceful world there would still be people who had to be incarcerated, although their numbers would be significantly lower than they are today.

In the end, the only way to prevent crime in adults is to prevent abuse in childhood. Sadly though, too many people still hit their children and even those who don't often use authoritarian style parenting which, simply put, is just as damaging to the child as hitting them is, bruises not withstanding.
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03-02-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: Prisons.
Prison conditions have to be harsh so psychopaths won't want to go there. If we make prison uncomfortable enough, the psychopaths will do something more respectable, like being a CEO or something, rather than disembowel children with pocket knives.

More seriously, I can't find that I disagree with the quote from the UK Justice Secretary:
"Speaking in his Commons office, Mr
Grayling, 50, said: ‘It isn’t reasonable for prisoners to enjoy things
that those outside on low incomes would struggle to have. My idea of
prison is not sitting watching the Sky Sports Sunday match. I accept
that, given they are locked up for a long time, prisoners should have
access to a TV set, but it is a privilege that should be earned, not
given automatically. They should not get all the frills.


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04-02-2013, 12:21 AM
RE: Prisons.
I think prisons should change greatly in the future, especially if we determine free will to be an illusion.

We should develop prisons that put inmates through psychotherapy to alter their behaviour and make them useful to society instead of harmful. When an inmate shows improvement they can then be sent back in to the world. This way we would waste a lot less money on prisons, we wouldn't have as many inmates because we would be reforming and sending them back out more rapidly than we are now,

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