Pro-Life Atheists?
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18-09-2010, 12:34 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
(18-09-2010 10:50 AM)TruthAddict Wrote:  There cannot be one point at which a new life begins.

As a bonus, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM

I would like to say that I disagree with you on this. Some time during the pregnancy the fetus has developed a complex enough brain for us to call it sentient. We come to a point where the fetus can have a sense of self, and of course, is also able to sense pain. This is the point in time when I agree with the conservative pro-lifers (and you abviously). Killing the fetus at this stage must surely be called murder. I do not know how long after conception the fetus gets to this stage and to my knowledge tit is not known to anyone else either. (I might simply be ignorant about that last bit) But I DO think we can find out if enough research is put into it.

Apart from this I also think that even though a fetus is not yet sentient, it is still a deplorable thing to do to deny it the opportunity to become so without a VERY just cause! (rape, incest etc.)

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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18-09-2010, 04:29 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
George Carlin has some interesting observations on this subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtlvr6LLV8
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18-09-2010, 04:46 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
Wait a minute.

Is this one of those "there was an accident, you can save your beloved pet or you can save your hated neighbor" things?

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Leonard Nimoy
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18-09-2010, 04:56 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
(18-09-2010 04:46 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Wait a minute.

Is this one of those "there was an accident, you can save your beloved pet or you can save your hated neighbor" things?

I don't think so. It definitely has points that most people miss.
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18-09-2010, 05:01 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
Ok well I'm confused because I have no idea what the question is.

I think this may be more of a American thing. Like with the abortion and stuff.

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Leonard Nimoy
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18-09-2010, 06:06 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
(18-09-2010 05:01 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Ok well I'm confused because I have no idea what the question is.

I think this may be more of a American thing. Like with the abortion and stuff.

It is George Carlin's commentary on pro-lifers. That's all.
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18-09-2010, 07:22 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
Pro-choice here, however with certain limitations. Of course in the instances of rape abortion should be a choice, no question about that. However, accidental pregnancies then become the concern. Now, since I'm also pro-sex (ie. fuck marriage, I'm young now) I believe that so long as people are taking the proper precautionary measures to avoid pregnancy the abortion should be an option. Which would mean, of course, that the couple would have to demonstrate that they were using protection, so if the girl is on the pill her doctor would know, naturally, or for the man you can just bring in the condom, gross I know but if you don't want the baby just wash it up and man up.

Accidental pregnancies in the case where it cannot be demonstrated that protection was used should have abortion as an option ONLY AT THE EXPENSE OF THE COUPLE. I say this because I live in Canada, and I don't need my tax dollars covering some bimbo's abortion because she had unprotected sex.

And of course I believe there should be a cut off date, I believe it is currently the third trimester(?) but I'm not sure. And, of course, any situation where the mother's life might be endangered or if the child won't survive etc etc.

I know some people seem flippant about abortions but the reality of the issue is usually firmly sobering when young women who thought it would be "so easy" are actually faced with the problem. In addition, I believe that most men shouldn't have too much of a say on the issue, we're not the ones that have to carry the baby for nine months and do the whole labour involved from conception to birth. It's easy to judge someone from the outside, but put into their position we may very well have some drastic changes of opinion.

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18-09-2010, 07:24 PM
 
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
(17-09-2010 11:14 PM)No J. Wrote:  If Adolph and Suddam had not been born, the deaths and suffering that they caused may not have happened, and less destructive people are likely to have had influences that would have been much better for everyone.

I don't affiliate much with extremists on either side, but I have to call you on your assumption here. Just because some unwanted children become sociopaths doesn't mean that they all do. That seems like a huge generalization. Just sayin.'
(18-09-2010 12:34 PM)ThinkingNorseman Wrote:  Apart from this I also think that even though a fetus is not yet sentient, it is still a deplorable thing to do to deny it the opportunity to become so without a VERY just cause! (rape, incest etc.)

Very well said.

And, as you stated in an earlier post, very few children are truly unwanted by anyone: I know many, many wonderful loving couples waiting to adopt children of any race or background.
(18-09-2010 07:22 PM)Green Wrote:  Pro-choice here, however with certain limitations. Of course in the instances of rape abortion should be a choice, no question about that. However, accidental pregnancies then become the concern. Now, since I'm also pro-sex (ie. fuck marriage, I'm young now) I believe that so long as people are taking the proper precautionary measures to avoid pregnancy the abortion should be an option. Which would mean, of course, that the couple would have to demonstrate that they were using protection, so if the girl is on the pill her doctor would know, naturally, or for the man you can just bring in the condom, gross I know but if you don't want the baby just wash it up and man up.

I think this attitude is actually a big part of the problem. Manning up would involve more than washing your jizz off a condom. It might involve taking responsibility for something you knew could happen by growing up and becoming a good father.

We all know how pregnancy happens and what the natural results of sex are. If you're ready to take responsibility for having sex, then you have to take responsibility for everything that can come with it.
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18-09-2010, 07:35 PM
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
(18-09-2010 07:24 PM)athnostic Wrote:  I know many, many wonderful loving couples waiting to adopt children of any race or background.

But is that worth treading on the rights of the woman carrying? I mean, if she's willing to keep the baby to put it up for adoption then that's fine, naturally, but if she doesn't then do we have the right, morally and legally, to force her to have a baby?

I think we're all taking pregnancy a little lightly here, it isn't exactly a romp in the fields for the mother...

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18-09-2010, 07:49 PM
 
RE: Pro-Life Atheists?
Quote:But is that worth treading on the rights of the woman carrying? I mean, if she's willing to keep the baby to put it up for adoption then that's fine, naturally, but if she doesn't then do we have the right, morally and legally, to force her to have a baby?

I think we're all taking pregnancy a little lightly here, it isn't exactly a romp in the fields for the mother...

It's also not absolutely horrific. I should know; I'm a mother of twins.

Society would not be forcing her to have a baby. She chose to have sex (unless she didn't, in which case abortion is definitely an option) and therefore she chooses the possible consequences of sex.
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