Pro Life Religious Pamphlet
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10-10-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: Pro Life Religious Pamphlet
Regarding the OP, I am pro-abortion to a point and pro-choice in general. I think there is some point during pregnancy in which the fetus has developed into a full baby before the baby is fully separated from the mother. Before that point, it's ridiculous to say abortion is killing a baby. After that point, the matter becomes much more gray. The exact point is difficult to define, but I'm comfortable that the fetus is not a baby within the first trimester. So I would personally have no moral conflict aborting a fetus anytime during the first trimester.

Once the fetus is a baby, the discussion must change to whether it's immoral to kill an unborn baby in any circumstance. Without a god dictating the answer, the philosophy on the matter becomes much more complex. Matters such as the health of the mother and the likely well-being of the baby after birth (for example, is it being born to maniac parents that don't want it?) must be considered. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all answer to this and it would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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10-10-2012, 06:37 PM
RE: Pro Life Religious Pamphlet
First off, this thread more properly belongs in the politics section, or the health section as it is not a issue of religion or non-religion (whether it was a religious group handing it out or not is not the issue here IMO.)

Secondly, I will be the black sheep here. I am against abortion. Yep, you don't have to have a God to think that abortion is wrong. Okay, now I will agree that I think it is acceptable in some situations to have an abortion. In the same way I think murder is wrong, but it is acceptable to murder (execute if you prefer) someone who has murdered people when it was not in self-defense or in the defense of others. I have mixed feelings about the topic but I think it is okay to abort a baby if there is good reason to believe the child would be born with little or quality of life, if the birth endangers the life of the mother, and for rape victims. It is also okay to prevent a fetus from becoming a baby, that is before it can think. After that point, I say it is wrong, but it is not always an easy thing to know. When does a baby have its first thought?

It is a complex situation, and I do not think their is an easy solution to be had, or agreed upon. I believe that all men have certain natural rights, which includes unborn babies, but the mother has those rights as well. This is what makes this issue so complex. Where does one persons rights begin and anothers end? Is the baby part of the mother or an individual? This is the only situation I can think of that is so complex for the case of natural rights. I respect everyone's opinion on the forum concerning the issue, and you are welcome to criticize me for mine. This is probably THE topic of moral ambiguity for me. I don't really like the over-simplification of "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice".

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10-10-2012, 06:53 PM
RE: Pro Life Religious Pamphlet
(10-10-2012 06:37 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  First off, this thread more properly belongs in the politics section, or the health section as it is not a issue of religion or non-religion (whether it was a religious group handing it out or not is not the issue here IMO.)

Secondly, I will be the black sheep here. I am against abortion. Yep, you don't have to have a God to think that abortion is wrong. Okay, now I will agree that I think it is acceptable in some situations to have an abortion. In the same way I think murder is wrong, but it is acceptable to murder (execute if you prefer) someone who has murdered people when it was not in self-defense or in the defense of others. I have mixed feelings about the topic but I think it is okay to abort a baby if there is good reason to believe the child would be born with little or quality of life, if the birth endangers the life of the mother, and for rape victims. It is also okay to prevent a fetus from becoming a baby, that is before it can think. After that point, I say it is wrong, but it is not always an easy thing to know. When does a baby have its first thought?

It is a complex situation, and I do not think their is an easy solution to be had, or agreed upon. I believe that all men have certain natural rights, which includes unborn babies, but the mother has those rights as well. This is what makes this issue so complex. Where does one persons rights begin and anothers end? Is the baby part of the mother or an individual? This is the only situation I can think of that is so complex for the case of natural rights. I respect everyone's opinion on the forum concerning the issue, and you are welcome to criticize me for mine. This is probably THE topic of moral ambiguity for me. I don't really like the over-simplification of "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice".

My stance is "I don't like abortions for no good reason, but banning them isn't going to do any good."

I don't support the ending of a POSSIBLE life, but if the mother and the father have a legitmate case of "I can't take care of it, I think it would be better off aborted" then yeah, I think it is justified to abort it. Wether or not you have a legitmate case is up for debate.

I will vote for pro-choice simply because I would rather have a clean doctor who specializes in the field doing the abortions rather than a back ally doctor that could potentially kill the mother and the baby.

I will respect the "choice" of deciding between aborting or not, but I can't say I like abortions.

That is really my stance on the issue.

I really don't disagree, just wanted to add my perspective of the whole thing.

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10-10-2012, 09:46 PM
RE: Pro Life Religious Pamphlet
I'm one of those black sheep who is basically against abortion too, for obviously non-religious reasons. But, I have my own opinions on when it's no longer ethically acceptable to end the baby's life than I think most do... maybe. Even at that, I don't go around trying to shove my ideas down anyone's throat, either. The way I see it is that I would rather it didn't happen, be that in decision or prevention (condoms, birth control pills, etc), if possible, but I'm not going to get all in anybody's face for what they do. By no means will I like it, and it'll make me upset to think about it, but it's not my life, so I stay out of it as much as I can. I hope that makes sense...

As to the conversation about medical procedures being graphic in nature, I have one to add! C-sections are super freakin' graphic and hard to watch/look at, but that's a baby being born! So... yeah. Cutting into or otherwise medically altering something within the body usually isn't pretty to look at. Confused
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11-10-2012, 01:29 AM
RE: Pro Life Religious Pamphlet
(10-10-2012 06:37 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I believe that all men have certain natural rights, which includes unborn babies, but the mother has those rights as well. This is what makes this issue so complex. Where does one persons rights begin and anothers end? Is the baby part of the mother or an individual? This is the only situation I can think of that is so complex for the case of natural rights. I respect everyone's opinion on the forum concerning the issue, and you are welcome to criticize me for mine. This is probably THE topic of moral ambiguity for me. I don't really like the over-simplification of "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice".

I wonder about the mother/father rights, n addition to babies, as well. Good point/question.



(10-10-2012 06:53 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I will vote for pro-choice simply because I would rather have a clean doctor who specializes in the field doing the abortions rather than a back ally doctor that could potentially kill the mother and the baby.

Exactly. For this reason.

There was a thread not long ago (to lazy to link) about the young girl in the Dominican who has cancer but cannot get treatment due to her pregnancy and anti-abortion laws.

I have a friend who has a severe spectrum mental illness who had to have an abortion in order to prevent her own illness from getting out of hand.

For these reasons I am pro-choice, because I can see many bad things happening to mothers and babies as a result of being backed into a corner where they can't get help.
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