Probability for existence of God
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-11-2017, 05:35 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:33 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 02:51 PM)Henri Wrote:  According to the Bible, as I read this specific issue, all babies and children who die directly go to Heaven. But that's another subject.

Bible doesn't say that. If you're talking about the part in 2 Samuel, it's too vague.

Actually the Bible says all the dead go to Sheol, (and that's not where all the divine beings live).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
08-11-2017, 05:39 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:35 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:00 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Don't mention Bayes theorem or you will cause heads to explode.

But what if we want that?

He doesn't know what that means. I already asked him to tell us what system he uses, and he didn't even get the question.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2017, 05:44 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2017 06:17 PM by Henri.)
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 04:39 PM)brunumb Wrote:  The existence of two options, creator and no creator, does not mean that they are equally probable regardless of the absence of any other information. You are trying to establish a probability for the universe having a creator but you start with an assumed probability that is invalid.

Options may seem as creator and no creator, but options are actually defined as - unconscious means and conscious means, where conscious means include consciousness at or above human level for reasons described in (1).

Those are two options on the same scale, consciousness scale, delimited at one specific point. Whatever created the universe can be measured against that scale so those options are valid.

That's like taking a scale of length, delimiting it at one point and saying that your height is either in group A or group B within the scale. Without seeing you and measuring your height, probability is 50/50 either way, because we don't know which one is it, but we know it has to be somewhere on the scale. By the way, that's different than saying, for example, that you are 5'8 high or not. One of the differences is that latter excludes only one point from all available options, while former puts you in a defined group between the two groups.

Having said that, it is exactly the fact that when we calculate probability for the two groups as defined in (1), it's 50/50. We know that universe exists, so it has a source. We are merely calculating probability for the source based on it's level of consciousness, including level of 0 consciousness.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2017, 05:44 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:35 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  But what if we want that?

He doesn't know what that means. I already asked him to tell us what system he uses, and he didn't even get the question.

His statistical king fu is no good.

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter
- Thomas Jefferson

Cheerful Charlie
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:44 PM)Henri Wrote:  Options may seem as creator and no creator, but options are actually defined as - unconscious means and conscious means, where conscious means include consciousness at or above human level for reasons described in (1).

Nope. That's nothing but how you chose, (in your biased mind) to define the options, (and fallaciously exclude all other options).

Quote:Having said that, it is exactly the fact that when we calculate probability for the two groups as defined in (1), it's 50/50. We know that universe exists, so it has a source. We are merely calculating probability for the sources based on it's level of consciousness, including level of 0 consciousness.

Nope. False. Your "source" assertion is not something "we know". It's what you BELIEVE. You have no evidence for that claim. Your OP is built on a false premise.
Therefore your conclusion is bullshit, (false).

Re-asserting crap, is still crap. You DON'T know the probabilities are 50/50. You made that up. It's also not a "calculation". It's nothing but an unsupported assertion.
Where did you *get* this crap ? Did someone tell you it makes sense ? You would get LAUGHED out of any academic institution with this garbage.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Bucky Ball's post
08-11-2017, 05:50 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 04:59 PM)Henri Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...it's about being impossible to ever prove exists.

Yes, and that's why we use probability methods.

No


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
08-11-2017, 05:54 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 04:41 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As I said, you know nothing about Probability and Stats. IF you KNOW the coin is rigged, then you KNOW the probability CANNOT be 50/50...

It is 50/50 for the one who calculates. You calculate probabilty based on information you have, not what other people have.

How do I know that coin is rigged? Somebody told me? How do I know that person who told me didn't lie? Even if that person didn't lie, maybe there is a rigged coin but not the one I am predicting probability about. How do I know?

So it's still 50/50 for me.

The only other way for me to calculate probability of a rigged coin before any toss is to take the coin, confirm it's rigged and measure how rigged it is. Then I track to see that it's the coin that's used. But again, what if person who tosses the coin has great sleight of hand and changes the coin I checked without me noticing it? And the answer is, that doesn't change my calculation. I didn't notice it so my calculation stands, since it's based on information that was available to me.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2017, 05:56 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:44 PM)Henri Wrote:  Options may seem as creator and no creator, but options are actually defined as - unconscious means and conscious means, where conscious means include consciousness at or above human level for reasons described in (1).

Those are two options on the same scale, consciousness scale, delimited at one specific point. Whatever created the universe can be measured against that scale so those options are valid.


That's like taking a scale of length, delimiting it at one point and saying that your height is either in group A or group B within the scale. Without seeing you and measuring your height, probability is 50/50 either way, because we don't know which one is it, but we know it has to be somewhere on the scale. By the way, that's different than saying, for example, that you are 5'8 high or not. One of the differences is that latter excludes only one point from all available options, while former puts you in a defined group between the two groups.

Having said that, it is exactly the fact that when we calculate probability for the two groups as defined in (1), it's 50/50. We know that universe exists, so it has a source. We are merely calculating probability for the sources based on it's level of consciousness, including level of 0 consciousness.


Sorry to interrupt but I wanted to address this.

Let’s say you take a ruler and make a mark on it. Take a random person and say they are either taller or shorter than that mark. Is the probability 50/50? No.

Let’s say you make that mark on the 4’ point. The odds of any person being shorter than that are not 50%. We know that because we know how tall people grow to be. We have prior information we can use to determine probability.

You have no sample of universes, nor do you have a proper dichotomy. The universe could be created by an agent, it could not be created by an agent, or it could be uncaused and eternal. We just don’t know.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like natachan's post
08-11-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:54 PM)Henri Wrote:  It is 50/50 for the one who calculates. You calculate probabilty based on information you have, not what other people have.

It is not. You then flip the coin and FIND out the truth, by testing. Your assumptions/guesses are not the same as probability.

But, nice try there sport.
If the coin IS rigged, IN REALITY (whether you know or not) the REAL ACTUAL probability is NOT 50/50.
Reality is NOT dependent on what's in your (uneducated) mind. If that were true, the Earth would have actually been flat 50/50.
It was NEVER anything but 100 % spherical, and THAT was always it's REAL probability.
You then TEST it, and get the data.

You REALLY have NOT the FIRST CLUE what you are even talking about.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
08-11-2017, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2017 06:18 PM by Henri.)
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 04:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It could be 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 / 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999.

Yes it could be, either way. That's 50/50.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: