Probability for existence of God
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08-11-2017, 06:01 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 04:55 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  If you flip a coin, there is a chance it may land on its edge or it may not. Therefore the chances of a coin landing on its edge is 50%/50%. Usual it isn't as bad as my example, but sometimes has approached that. There is probably a name for this sort of nonsense statisticial thinking, but I don't know what it is.

This is not analogous to fliipping a coin, since it's against a scale. There is no third option here.
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08-11-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:00 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Don't mention Bayes theorem or you will cause heads to explode.

OP is in fact easy to understand from Bayesian perspective.
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08-11-2017, 06:04 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:17 PM)Henri Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 04:01 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  You cannot assign a probability to the existence of something you cannot comprehend.

I can comprehend that any entity that created universe can be measured against a level of consciousness, whatever that level would be, starting from 0.


And until you offer proof that such an entity exists, any such measurements are speculative at best.


(08-11-2017 05:15 PM)Henri Wrote:  That's conclusion not explicit verse.

Citation?

(08-11-2017 05:15 PM)Henri Wrote:  There is an age of accountability, until which a child doesn't know what's right and wrong and as such cannot commit sin before God, although he, she or it has sinnful nature. Along children that would also include, for example, mentally retarded people.

Again, citation.

Why don't you save some time and spell out which bible you are using and, more importantly, which doctrine of christianity you are peddling.

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08-11-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:00 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  But all your calculations are moot, because you are beginning with a stolen concept, that the universe was created. Correct the fallacy by starting with existence and your argument melts away.

You can reffer to universe we get to observe and measure - the only kind known to us - as "universe we get see in a form we get to see it".

That doesn't assume if universe as a whole is eternal or not. It could be either way and calculated probability still stands at 50/50.

Again, whether universe as a whole is eternal or not is not any part of the premise and doesn't affect probability.
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08-11-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
Slim to none. ... Unless your're talking to me. ... You talking to me? Well who you talking to if you ain't talking to me? I'm the only one here.




#sigh
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08-11-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
I am utterly unconvinced by all philosophical arguments for gods, and all probability arguments for gods.

And some gods, like the batshit-insane rat bastard in the Bible, are so ridiculous and so obviously fabricated that I believe the probability of their existence to be zero.

All other divine beings can get me to believe in them simply by teleporting into my office and saying hi.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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08-11-2017, 06:14 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2017 06:25 PM by Loom.)
RE: Probability for existence of God
I'm still wondering at what point does anything begin to exist. Everything, as in the energy and matter of the universe, HAS existed, during, following, and possibly before the Big Bang, which for all we know could have been the universe recycling itself. Matter and energy has simply changed form over the aeons. There's nothing to suggest the universe ever began.

But, it is still far too early to make assumptions, and even calculate probabilities. The honest answer right now is "I don't know, but I'm trying to figure it out."

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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08-11-2017, 06:15 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 05:14 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  If it's eternal, it didn't "get to exist" at all, and both of your options are irrelevant. Are you really so stupid that you can't see this? Yes. Yes, you are.

Universe that we get to observe and measure got to exist, through change. I'm not reffering to the whole universe. We don't know what whole universe is, we only know what we can observe and measure.

Sun got to exist. Earth got to exist. Water on Earth got to exist. Are you saying those are eternal in states we see them now?
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08-11-2017, 06:22 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 06:09 PM)Henri Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:00 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  But all your calculations are moot, because you are beginning with a stolen concept, that the universe was created. Correct the fallacy by starting with existence and your argument melts away.

You can reffer to universe we get to observe and measure - the only kind known to us - as "universe we get see in a form we get to see it".

That doesn't assume if universe as a whole is eternal or not. It could be either way and calculated probability still stands at 50/50.

Again, whether universe as a whole is eternal or not is not any part of the premise and doesn't affect probability.

But the thing you are trying to calculate the probablility for is based on a stolen concept. That's what you seem unable to grasp. No matter what premises you have your argument will be invalid and since your conclusion is a self-contradictory proposition, your argument can not fail to be unsound. This is true for all arguments for a creator god. That's why after thousands of years, no one has ever proven it and no one ever will.

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08-11-2017, 06:26 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(08-11-2017 06:15 PM)Henri Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:14 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  If it's eternal, it didn't "get to exist" at all, and both of your options are irrelevant. Are you really so stupid that you can't see this? Yes. Yes, you are.

Universe that we get to observe and measure got to exist, through change. I'm not reffering to the whole universe. We don't know what whole universe is, we only know what we can observe and measure.

Sun got to exist. Earth got to exist. Water on Earth got to exist. Are you saying those are eternal in states we see them now?

Well then if your just talking about the current state of the universe, we know what caused that. It was the expansion of the universe from a small dense and extremely hot state to what we have now. The expansion of the universe was caused by the nature of that small hot, dense and extremely hot universe. Because all actions are caused by entities and the nature of the action is determined by the nature of the entity which acts. That's the law of causality.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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