Probability for existence of God
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09-11-2017, 05:13 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 04:59 PM)Free Wrote:  I cannot believe that you do not understand that before you can state that something has a probability that you must first demonstrate a possibility.

Therefore, there can be absolutely no probability of God existing until you can prove that it is possible that God can exist.

That is why your OP is invalid. Your premise of a "probability' is not based upon any factual data whatsoever.

So ... can you prove that the existence of God is possible?

Oh, you deny possibility. It is absurd to deny possibility against a claim you can't observe and measure.

Fish in deep ocean can deny possibility that anything other than environment they are in exists, but that doesn't change reality.

There is no known natural law that says that you have to understand everything about reality.

But you seem to operate under illusion that since you exist you have to understand everything about reality and if you don't understand it than it is not real. Or under illusion that if creator exists you must understand that creator exists, and if you don't, that means that creator doesn't exist. Or both.
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09-11-2017, 05:20 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 05:13 PM)Henri Wrote:  But you seem to operate under illusion that since you exist you have to understand everything about reality and if you don't understand it than it is not real. Or under illusion that if creator exists you must understand that creator exists, and if you don't, that means that creator doesn't exist. Or both.

Nope. There is no coherent definition of a 'creator' (one who *does* something in a non-temporal environment, is meaningless), (which of course you don't understand). So now, after positing ONLY two possibilities in this idiotic OP, now he's moved to saying ANYTHING can be true.

So, we're to the point where he's agreeing that Sparkly Pink Unicorns could be the creator, and we would have no way of knowing it.

If we have no way of knowing, and there is no evidence for it, then why are you even talking about this ? It's totally irrelevant, as would anything be to a fish in deep ocean who knows no other environment.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-11-2017, 05:23 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 05:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 04:55 PM)Henri Wrote:  You can calculate probability with any info you have. You can not check for balance, and not have prior knowledge of coin tosses, and still understand what is the probability, based on information you do have. And in that case, it's 50/50.

Nope. You know nothing about probability. One CAN check for balance, and we have MOUNTAINS of data on coin tosses, (you may be totally ignorant of it, but we have it). It is not 50/50, you fool. It's not possible to compute without data, and you have none. SHOW US HOW YOU COMPUTED 50/50.

http://statweb.stanford.edu/~susan/paper...swithJ.pdf

Henri, we're waiting for you to show us your calculations .... what is the mean, and what is the standard deviation you used. How long do we have to wait ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-11-2017, 05:27 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 05:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 05:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. You know nothing about probability. One CAN check for balance, and we have MOUNTAINS of data on coin tosses, (you may be totally ignorant of it, but we have it). It is not 50/50, you fool. It's not possible to compute without data, and you have none. SHOW US HOW YOU COMPUTED 50/50.

http://statweb.stanford.edu/~susan/paper...swithJ.pdf

Henri, we're waiting for you to show us your calculations .... what is the mean, and what is the standard deviation you used. How long do we have to wait ?

Still waiting.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-11-2017, 05:32 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 05:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 05:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Henri, we're waiting for you to show us your calculations .... what is the mean, and what is the standard deviation you used. How long do we have to wait ?

Still waiting.

I accidentally read this last post of yours. I stopped reading your posts from last page. You need some help, man. But I can't help you.
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09-11-2017, 05:38 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 05:32 PM)Henri Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 05:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Still waiting.

I accidentally read this last post of yours. I stopped reading your posts from last page. You need some help, man. But I can't help you.

Exactly.
You never did make a calculation, and you just admitted it.
Thanks for proving yourself a liar.
Jebus no likey that shit.

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09-11-2017, 05:42 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  Some summary on comments on this thread.

This should be entertaining...

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  1) There's continuous thread of insults, starting from page one.

You came here, to OUR place on the 'net, and started off by LYING to us.
What kind of response did you expect?

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  I'm posting here as newly registered member, never having posted before, so aside that it's poor welcoming, it badly reflects on your position. You don't need foul language if you have truth and reason on your side, and you are confident in what you have.

You received the welcome that you earned.

Here's a couple of more questions for you to ignore:

DID YOU POST AN INTRODUCTION THREAD, SAYING HELLO?

DID YOU READ ANY OTHER THREADS OR POSTS BEFORE YOU STARTED POSTING?

DID YOU COME HERE TO DISCUSS IDEAS?

OR DID YOU SIMPLY COME HERE TO PREACH?

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  Even those who argued against OP without using insults are silently accepting the tone that comes from other members, so it reflects badly on them too.

SO EVEN THOSE WHO ATTEMPTED TO TALK NICELY TO YOU ARE AT FAULT TOO?

What's wrong henri? Did the insults hit too close to home? or did a fact slip into your skull and trigger a thought?

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  No one said something like: "Please, let's not insult. We have truth and reason on our side and that's what we'll use to reveal errors."

Sorry princess, but if you come here to preach, you're on your own.

I note that in other threads people have done exactly that: Resident posters have called for others to moderate their tone.

But again, you received what you deserved.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  That's not any kind of proof that you are wrong, of course, but it does point to that direction. And it looks bad for you, regardless.

What it looks like is that yet another wanna-be-preacher came here and started spewing shit. And when said WBP couldn't handle it when their arguments were completely refuted, their evidence debunked and their credibility destroyed.

In other words, you're acting like a petulant child.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  2) There's an objection that universe can be eternal so OP either doesn't apply or there should be correction on probability.

That's false, as I have replied a number of times throughout the thread.

And you were refuted every time.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  4) Some of the objections were about not being able to observe God, hence there is no God.

There is no known natural law that says that living beings, including humans, have to understand everything about reality. Nor is there known natural law that says that a living being should be able to observe creator of the universe, if creator of the universe exists.

The problem is ALL OF THE FUCKING RELIGIOUS PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO HAVE AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS CREATOR.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  So why would one make a claim that in case creator does exist, he or she has to observe the creator and has to understand that creator exists?

Belief without evidence is gullibility.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  There is, though, massive amount of testimonies from people who are convicted of the existence of God. There are about 2 billion Christians today, and good portion have complete conviction that God exists.

Bandwagon fallacy.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  One can dismiss all those millions and millions of testimonies, and not take a single one of them for what they say, but they exist nevertheless. They just might not be the sign one thinks a sign for God should be. But again, there is no known natural law that says that if creator of the universe exists, such creator must provide a particular set of signs for his (or hers, or its) existence.

Why is evidence important?

That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
~ C. Hitchens


(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  5) Throughout the thread I have been using the term God, but not to mean one particular God but to refer to general notion of the creator from the OP.

As several of us noted, it has been clear from you OP onward that you were here to preach one god in particular.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  This is just a clarification, in case it's needed. I have an understanding that God who created our universe is the God who revealed Himself through the Bible, His word.

Which version of the bible?

The bible that gives the rules for slavery?
Condones rape and genocide?

The god that glorifies in infanticide?
The god that supposedly drowned an entire planet?

Or the one that impregnated a virgin with himself, to save the world from himself?

The one that promises his eternal love as long as you love him back?
And if you reject his love, he tortures you forever?

This is your god????

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  By the way, I came to understanding that what's written in Bible is mostly literal truth, from literal six days of creation onward.

Young Earth Creationism.

You do believe the earth is round, don't you?

What about the solar system? Spinning around the sun or balancing on turtles and elephants?

While I have to admit that the idea of turtles and elephants is cool, it has in fact been proven false. Science and all that.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  I did refer to available calculations about our reality, which include figures from cosmology, in final part of the OP, but not because I believe all such figures are true, but because those are available mainstream official figures.

Those the same mainstream figures that prove the age of the earth?

I'll give you a hint Sweetie: You can't cite "mainstream figures" after claiming to believe a six day creation.

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  It is ironic that if you take what's written in the Bible as truth, ....

[Image: VA2hSUu.jpg]

(09-11-2017 01:40 PM)Henri Wrote:  There are many other false things said in this thread, by those against OP. I can't reply to all.

But, Henri, why hasn't your god given you the answers? Why don't you have the ability to smite us with your awesome truth? Surely a god that created the universe could give you the arguments, inspire you with the ability to make us see the light?

Or maybe you're just full of shit. Drinking Beverage

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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09-11-2017, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2017 06:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 05:04 PM)Henri Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 04:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why are you bothering with this twit? He don't even know what a probability distribution is.

If you are so good at probability, why didn't you correct your fellow members when they present obvious mistakes here?

Let's see with you - if I say to you that coin is rigged, and you have no prior knowledge of coin tossses with that coin, what is the probability for heads?

Lacking any additional knowledge, the principle of indifference (do you already know what that means or did you have to google it? I bet you had to google it. Probably still don't grasp it even after you googled it.) is the only rational position to take. However, you should question your own rational capacity if you ever find yourself in the unfortunate position where you need to appeal to the principle of indifference. That's basically admitting you don't know shit. But we do know shit. Well at least some of us do. We know for example that you are unfamiliar with the basic concept of a probability density function. I can use that knowledge to dismiss out of hand any arguments you present wrt probability as uninformed and uneducated and save myself a lot of wasted time trying to refute the flotsam and jetsam of a fool.. .... Did I answer your question? ... That was obviously rhetorical.




#sigh
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09-11-2017, 06:20 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 04:55 PM)Henri Wrote:  You can calculate probability with any info you have. You can not check for balance, and not have prior knowledge of coin tosses, and still understand what is the probability, based on information you do have. And in that case, it's 50/50.

No If the coin is biased but you have no prior knowledge of that fact, the two outcomes do not have equal probability. You just don't know what they are.

Do we get to here how you went from almost 100% certainty of a creator existing to that creator being Bible God?

No gods necessary.
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09-11-2017, 06:22 PM
RE: Probability for existence of God
(09-11-2017 05:04 PM)Henri Wrote:  Let's see with you - if I say to you that coin is rigged, and you have no prior knowledge of coin tossses with that coin, what is the probability for heads?

Unknown.

No gods necessary.
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