Probability
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21-03-2013, 11:50 AM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 11:37 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 07:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "Stop making baseless assertions. Its it up or shut up time."

I concur. Present your miracles or I shall put you on my ignore list so as to shut you up.

The only thing I have to say about miracles is that if you only observe miracles with natural explanations then it is reasonable to believe all miracles have natural explanations.
I have no idea, because I have never seen, witnessed, read, watched, listened too, or been privy to any miracle of natural or supernatural origins.

Got a miracle with what you consider to be natural causes? If so, present it/them. If not, bugger off.

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21-03-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 11:50 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 11:37 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The only thing I have to say about miracles is that if you only observe miracles with natural explanations then it is reasonable to believe all miracles have natural explanations.
I have no idea, because I have never seen, witnessed, read, watched, listened too, or been privy to any miracle of natural or supernatural origins.

Got a miracle with what you consider to be natural causes? If so, present it/them. If not, bugger off.

In India some statue of a god was purported to drink milk from a spoon if the spoon was placed at the mouth of the statue. Gravity and surface tension suffiecently explain what is observed more so than supernatural acts.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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21-03-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 11:54 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 11:50 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I have no idea, because I have never seen, witnessed, read, watched, listened too, or been privy to any miracle of natural or supernatural origins.

Got a miracle with what you consider to be natural causes? If so, present it/them. If not, bugger off.

In India some statue of a god was purported to drink milk from a spoon if the spoon was placed at the mouth of the statue. Gravity and surface tension suffiecently explain what is observed more so than supernatural acts.
A) What is your definition of a miracle? (as what you consider to be acceptable as a miracle and what I might consider acceptable to be a miracle are clearly not the same)

B) How would an Indian statue of a god "drinking" milk from a spoon, have any logical reason for being connected (naturally or supernaturally) to any god? I mean, I have straw right here and I can replicate the same bloody observation.

C) How does a natural explanation for this observation, qualify it as an act by a supernatural force?


I suppose it is worth noting that if this is your best example then no, miracles do not have natural explanations because miracles don't occur.

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21-03-2013, 12:16 PM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 12:04 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I suppose it is worth noting that if this is your best example then no, miracles do not have natural explanations because miracles don't occur.

And how is it that you reached the conclusion that miracles do not occur?

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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21-03-2013, 12:20 PM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 12:16 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 12:04 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I suppose it is worth noting that if this is your best example then no, miracles do not have natural explanations because miracles don't occur.

And how is it that you reached the conclusion that miracles do not occur?
What is your definition of a miracle?

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21-03-2013, 01:18 PM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 12:20 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 12:16 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  And how is it that you reached the conclusion that miracles do not occur?
What is your definition of a miracle?

Google "definition miracle" and pick one you think applies to this conversation.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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21-03-2013, 01:24 PM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 01:18 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 12:20 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What is your definition of a miracle?

Google "definition miracle" and pick one you think applies to this conversation.
That's not how this works. What if I were to choose one specifically that negated everything you said? I want to know what is going through your head when you say the word "miracle" and I can't do it, you have to tell me.

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21-03-2013, 01:34 PM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 01:18 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Google "definition miracle" and pick one you think applies to this conversation.
That's not how this works. What if I were to choose one specifically that negated everything you said? I want to know what is going through your head when you say the word "miracle" and I can't do it, you have to tell me.


"A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is considered to be divine."

That's the first definition that Google gave me....it seems appropriate to the conversation. Let's use it.


Now how is it you reached a conclusion that miracles do not occur?

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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21-03-2013, 01:44 PM
RE: Probability
(21-03-2013 01:34 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That's not how this works. What if I were to choose one specifically that negated everything you said? I want to know what is going through your head when you say the word "miracle" and I can't do it, you have to tell me.


"A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is considered to be divine."

That's the first definition that Google gave me....it seems appropriate to the conversation. Let's use it.


Now how is it you reached a conclusion that miracles do not occur?
"not explicable by natural or scientific laws"
Completely negates your example as a miracle.

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21-03-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: Probability
But if this is the definition you want to use, then there has never been an observed miracle. Which means that until one is observed, it is irrational and illogical to say that they exist/occur.

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