Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
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03-10-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 08:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 06:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Can you not read? I have stated clearly that that is my position.
I have clearly stated my position.

Oh so it's not a lack of belief. You actually hold a series of positive beliefs here. That the universe is meaningless, etc..

You hold a contrary position which has the burden of proof as well. Okay then, present the evidence for it. Prove to me it's true.

I have no burden of proof. I am stating my belief, not making a claim.

And my belief is based on an utter lack of evidence to the contrary.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 09:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Notice this isn't a question about the mechanisms that brought such lives together, it proceeds that. So appealing to evolution,abiogensis, isn't relevant.

I think you mean 'precedes'.

But it is entirely relevant. Without a mechanism it is empty speculation.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2016, 10:15 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 10:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 09:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Notice this isn't a question about the mechanisms that brought such lives together, it proceeds that. So appealing to evolution,abiogensis, isn't relevant.

I think you mean 'precedes'.

shhh ...

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-10-2016, 11:39 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 09:05 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  FFS. You can repeat the strawman as often as you like. It still won't become true.

What part of Naturalism, Humanism and Rationalism do you not understand?

Naturalism
Humanism
Rationalism

Most are apistevists as well.

Quote:
Apistevist
A person who does not use faith to know things-especially in the religious sense.

These are worldviews, even if you refuse to admit it.

No, I wouldn't consider them worldviews, except maybe ontological naturalism. They might be views integral to one's worldview but not worldviews themselves. Hence why individuals of a variety of different worldviews, can hold to all the above mentioned positions. Materialism, Physicalism are worldviews, and those who subscribe to it might classify themselves as all the above as well.

Quote:Most are apistevists as well.

Quote:Apistevist
A person who does not use faith to know things-especially in the religious sense.

These are worldviews, even if you refuse to admit it.

I'd say this might be a feature of one's worldview, but not a worldview itself. The term also seems to indicate very little beyond someone pointing out that they're non-religious.

Quote:Many posters, including myself, have stated that we accept science and reject religion.

And I accept science, and believe that God exists. Just like half of all scientist.

It should also be said science is not a worldview, naturalism in regards to science is methodological, not ontological.

Quote:I do not lack belief. I reject your god/religion. I accept the scientific explanation.

I reject atheistic worldviews, and accept scientific explanation. I do wonder if you would say you only accept what would constitutes as scientific explanation as true, and lack a belief in anything other that scientific explanations. If that were the case than you'd lack a belief in any ontological positions, atheistic or theistic. The question of meaning, or meaninglessness, nihilism or not, wouldn't constitutes as a scientific explanations. So what do you do with questions that are not about scientific explanations? Forgo belief?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-10-2016, 11:41 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 10:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  I think you mean 'precedes'.

But it is entirely relevant. Without a mechanism it is empty speculation.


Whatever you call "empty speculations" here wouldn't be about mechanisms. Questions about whether we are here to serve some inherent purpose, or not, whether it's all just meaningless noise, inherently nihilistic in nature, are not about mechanisms.

I wonder if you consider all views one way or the the other, atheistic or theistic here, as empty speculations since it's not about mechanisms.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-10-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  I have no burden of proof. I am stating my belief, not making a claim.

And my belief is based on an utter lack of evidence to the contrary.

Utter lack of evidence leads to a lack of belief. If I have an utter lack of evidence of your marital status, I'd lack a belief one way or the other as to whether you're married or not.


Quote:And my belief is based on an utter lack of evidence to the contrary.

So you hold beliefs based on an utter lack of evidence, beliefs based on no evidence? I thought that was faith.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-10-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 11:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So what do you do with questions that are not about scientific explanations? Forgo belief?

Why don't you just tell me what I think? That's your usual game.

You choose to ignore defined philosophical definitions and redefine whatever doesn't fit your sermon of the day. You are not interested in honest discussion and your tactics prove it.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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03-10-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 12:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 11:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So what do you do with questions that are not about scientific explanations? Forgo belief?

Why don't you just tell me what I think? That's your usual game.

I prefer you tell me, because I'm not entirely sure what your answer would be to that, though I think it's likely to be some version of forgoing such beliefs.


Quote:You choose to ignore defined philosophical definitions and redefine whatever doesn't fit your sermon of the day. You are not interested in honest discussion and your tactics prove it.

I have my views of atheists, who at this point have been around discussed a variety of topics with for well over a decade. So when i express what those views are, there my take aways from the long history of discussions. If you think I'm wrong in my assessment, I'm open to hearing it. I'll listen, you might not like my response, but I'll try and hear you out. So stop being so defense, if you're not informing me, perhaps you can see yourself as informing others who read your posts.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-10-2016, 12:43 PM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 12:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 12:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Why don't you just tell me what I think? That's your usual game.

I prefer you tell me, because I'm not entirely sure what your answer would be to that, though I think it's likely to be some version of forgoing such beliefs.

You have been told repeatedly. You lied about it. When I called you on it, and posted proof, you ignored it.


(03-10-2016 12:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  So stop being so defense, if you're not informing me, perhaps you can see yourself as informing others who read your posts.

I'll stop being defensive when you stop lying.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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03-10-2016, 12:48 PM
Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(03-10-2016 12:43 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 12:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I prefer you tell me, because I'm not entirely sure what your answer would be to that, though I think it's likely to be some version of forgoing such beliefs.

You have been told repeatedly. You lied about it. When I called you on it, and posted proof, you ignored it.

And you refused to clarify. You indicated you accept scientific explanations. And I asked what that would mean in regards to questions that are not about scientific explanations, do you forgo believing one way or the other here?

Heres your opportunity to clarify.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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