Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
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27-09-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(27-09-2016 02:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is the definition of god according to theism narrow?

Is the accepted definition of atheism too complex?

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27-09-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
Can we have a thread called "Tommy's stupid shit" where we can move all his pointless derails?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-09-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(27-09-2016 02:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-09-2016 01:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  Reread what I wrote. Belief in that kind of 'god' does not constitute theism; it's not even deism.

You do realize that deism is a form of theism, just like pantheism, panentheism, polytheism, etc.. are forms of theism? Belief in any kind of "god/s" would constitute as theism.

Quote:Since I have not stated a meaning, I have nothing to support.
The definition of theism precludes that definition of god as appropriate.

It seems you don't understand theism. Theism doesn't preclude any definition of god, or label any particular definition as inappropriate. If you believe in a god of any sort, you'd be a theist of one type or the other.

What is interesting is that you seem to suggest that theism precludes a belief in certain types of god/s. But atheism doesn't? Would those who believe in such inappropriate gods be atheist? Is atheism a lack of belief in appropriate god/s? Or both inappropriate and appropriate god/s?

Quote:No, theism has a narrower definition than you are trying to fob off on us.
Look it up.

Theism is just as broad as the very definition of the thing the theist is to believe in.

Is the definition of god according to theism narrow?

the·ism ˈTHēˌizəm
noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.


de·ism ˈdēizəm,ˈdāizəm
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

pan·the·ism ˈpanTHēˌizəm
noun
a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.


Learn to use a dictionary, TommyTwat.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-09-2016, 10:25 AM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(28-09-2016 09:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-09-2016 02:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You do realize that deism is a form of theism, just like pantheism, panentheism, polytheism, etc.. are forms of theism? Belief in any kind of "god/s" would constitute as theism.


It seems you don't understand theism. Theism doesn't preclude any definition of god, or label any particular definition as inappropriate. If you believe in a god of any sort, you'd be a theist of one type or the other.

What is interesting is that you seem to suggest that theism precludes a belief in certain types of god/s. But atheism doesn't? Would those who believe in such inappropriate gods be atheist? Is atheism a lack of belief in appropriate god/s? Or both inappropriate and appropriate god/s?


Theism is just as broad as the very definition of the thing the theist is to believe in.

Is the definition of god according to theism narrow?

the·ism ˈTHēˌizəm
noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.


de·ism ˈdēizəm,ˈdāizəm
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

pan·the·ism ˈpanTHēˌizəm
noun
a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.


Learn to use a dictionary, TommyTwat.

I will make the bold prediction that he will claim that the latter two still involve "Gods" of a sort, and therefore still fall under the first definition of theism. And in a sense, he will be right. The concept of "God" is just too fuzzy and ill-defined for anyone to nail it down.
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28-09-2016, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2016 10:38 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(28-09-2016 09:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-09-2016 02:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You do realize that deism is a form of theism, just like pantheism, panentheism, polytheism, etc.. are forms of theism? Belief in any kind of "god/s" would constitute as theism.


It seems you don't understand theism. Theism doesn't preclude any definition of god, or label any particular definition as inappropriate. If you believe in a god of any sort, you'd be a theist of one type or the other.

What is interesting is that you seem to suggest that theism precludes a belief in certain types of god/s. But atheism doesn't? Would those who believe in such inappropriate gods be atheist? Is atheism a lack of belief in appropriate god/s? Or both inappropriate and appropriate god/s?


Theism is just as broad as the very definition of the thing the theist is to believe in.

Is the definition of god according to theism narrow?

the·ism ˈTHēˌizəm
noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.


de·ism ˈdēizəm,ˈdāizəm
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

pan·the·ism ˈpanTHēˌizəm
noun
a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.


Learn to use a dictionary, TommyTwat.

"Theism, in the field of comparative religion, is the belief in the existence of deities.[1] In popular parlance, the term theism often describes the classical conception of god(s) that is found in the monotheistic and polytheistic religions."

"Types of Theism[edit]
Monotheism[edit]
Main article: Monotheism
Monotheism (from Greek μόνος) is the belief in theology that only one deity exists.[7] Some modern day monotheistic religions include Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Baha'i Faith, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, Eckankar and some forms of Hinduism.

Polytheism[edit]
Main article: Polytheism
Polytheism is the belief that there is more than one god.[8] In practice, polytheism is not just the belief that there are multiple gods; it usually includes belief in the existence of a specific pantheon of distinct deities.

Within polytheism there are hard and soft varieties:

Hard polytheism views the gods as being distinct and separate beings; an example of this would be certain schools of Hinduism as well as Hellenismos.
Soft polytheism views the gods as being subsumed into a greater whole. Some other forms of Hinduism such as Smartism/Advaita Vedanta serve as examples of soft polytheism.
Polytheism is also divided according to how the individual deities are regarded:

Henotheism: The viewpoint/belief that there may be more than one deity, but only one of them is worshiped.
Kathenotheism: The viewpoint/belief that there is more than one deity, but only one deity is worshiped at a time or ever, and another may be worthy of worship at another time or place. If they are worshiped one at a time, then each is supreme in turn.
Monolatrism: The belief that there may be more than one deity, but that only one is worthy of being worshiped. Most of the modern monotheistic religions may have begun as monolatric ones, although this is disputed.
Pantheism and panentheism[edit]
Main articles: Pantheism and Panentheism
Pantheism: The belief that the physical universe is equivalent to god, and that there is no division between a Creator and the substance of its creation.[9] Examples include works of Baruch Spinoza.
Panentheism: Like Pantheism, the belief that the physical universe is joined to a god or gods. However, it also believes that a god or gods are greater than the material universe. Examples include most forms of Vaishnavism.
Some people find the distinction between these two beliefs as ambiguous and unhelpful, while others see it as a significant point of division.[10] Pantheism may be understood a type of Nontheism, where the physical universe takes on some of the roles of a theistic God, and other roles of God viewed as unnecessary.[11]

Deism[edit]
Main article: Deism
Classical deism is the belief that at least one deity exists and created the world, but that the creator(s) does/do not alter the original plan for the universe.[12]
Deism typically rejects supernatural events (such as prophecies, miracles, and divine revelations) prominent in organized religion. Instead, Deism holds that religious beliefs must be founded on human reason and observed features of the natural world, and that these sources reveal the existence of a supreme being as creator.[13]

Pandeism: The belief that a god preceded the universe and created it, but is now equivalent with it.
Panendeism combines deism with panentheism, believing the universe is a part of, but not all of a god.
Polydeism: The belief that multiple gods existed, but do not intervene in the universe."

Etc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

"Theism incorporates Monotheism (belief in one God), Polytheism (belief in many gods) and Deism (belief in one or more gods who do not intevene in the world), as well as Pantheism (belief that God and the universe are the same thing), Panentheism (belief that God is everywhere in the universe but still greater and above the universe) and many other variants (see the section on Philosophy of Religion). What it does not include is Atheism (belief that there are no gods) and Agnosticism (belief that it is unknown whether gods exist or not)."

http://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_theism.html

Quote:Learn to use a dictionary, TommyTwat.

Get a clue.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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28-09-2016, 05:09 PM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(28-09-2016 10:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:Learn to use a dictionary, TommyTwat.

Get a clue.

None of what you posted equates "an impersonal life force" with a god. Try again. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-09-2016, 05:15 PM
Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(28-09-2016 05:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 10:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Get a clue.

None of what you posted equates "an impersonal life force" with a god. Try again. Drinking Beverage

So you now acknowledge that deism, pantheism, etc are all forms of theism?

That a belief in god/s of any sort would be a form of theism? Do you have the honesty to admit that?


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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28-09-2016, 05:19 PM
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(28-09-2016 05:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 05:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  None of what you posted equates "an impersonal life force" with a god. Try again. Drinking Beverage

So you now acknowledge that deism, pantheism, etc are all forms of theism?

No, I don't. See the definitions I posted.

Quote:That a belief in god/s of any sort would be a form of theism? Do you have the honesty to admit that?

Deism is not theism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-09-2016, 05:27 PM
Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(28-09-2016 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 05:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  So you now acknowledge that deism, pantheism, etc are all forms of theism?

No, I don't. See the definitions I posted.

Quote:That a belief in god/s of any sort would be a form of theism? Do you have the honesty to admit that?

Deism is not theism.


Deism is a form of theism, as the Wikipedia article and the philosophy article both indicate.

And which should be evident to those who label themselves atheist as well, but apparently not.

It seems that rather than admitting you were wrong, you want to pathetically argue otherwise, it's fun to watch though.






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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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28-09-2016, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2016 05:54 PM by Chas.)
RE: Probable, or Not. The 1000 flavors is boring me...
(28-09-2016 05:27 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, I don't. See the definitions I posted.


Deism is not theism.


Deism is a form of theism, as the Wikipedia article and the philosophy article both indicate.

And which should be evident to those who label themselves atheist as well, but apparently not.

It seems that rather than admitting you were wrong, you want to pathetically argue otherwise, it's fun to watch though.

Theism is generally accepted as an involved deity, while deism posits an uninvolved deity.
That makes them distinct.

And still, none of what you posted equates "an impersonal life force" with a god.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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