Probing Men's Rights
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18-08-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(18-08-2014 09:32 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(18-08-2014 04:19 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  If Res Publica had been born female then he would have been exactly the kind of radical feminnazi that he currently despises.

No I am quite sure I would not. Did you even read the OP? It is an attack on MRA. I don't like anyone falsely claiming to be a victim (why I don't like feminism) and I can't stand people falsely telling me I'm a victim (why I don't like MRA).

You also seem to dislike facts, most of your arguments are based on either misunderstanding or outright falsehoods with little in the way of substance.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-08-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(18-08-2014 08:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 10:17 PM)pablo Wrote:  I find the title of this thread mildly disturbing. Big Grin

Me too. I've been thinking about that and if someone's going to do it, it better be bilaterally. Angel

Yea! What about the lefts?!
Now there's some discrimination for ya!
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18-08-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
I'm probably going to regret this, pretty much immediately once I hit "Post Reply"...but I've read a lot of the MRA Reddit threads and I honestly think they get a bad name when they don't deserve it.

The "Boko Haram" thing, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they're okay with what happened to the girls. It's just saying one got media coverage, and the other didn't, despite both being horrible.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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19-08-2014, 12:32 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(18-08-2014 12:07 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  EvolutionKills is exactly right. If you read any modern feminist blog, or subscribe to any feminist literature, the issues plagueing transgender and homosexuals come up as often if not more than the plights of woman. It might be tempting to see them as ideologically distinct, but in practice modern feminists are also LGBQT activists, and vice versa. To say that feminism is only about the rights of cis, heterosexual white woman is a gross mischaracterization of the movement.

See, the bolded thing is the only thing that matters in feminism. you can be straight and transgender and be a feminist as long as you care about WOMEN'S rights. You can be a feminist and fucking be against transegenders or hate gays. You can be a feminist and be racist. You can be feminist and be a trans, but still not give a shit about mens rights.

All that matters is that you care about WOMEN'S rights.

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19-08-2014, 12:47 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(19-08-2014 12:32 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(18-08-2014 12:07 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  EvolutionKills is exactly right. If you read any modern feminist blog, or subscribe to any feminist literature, the issues plagueing transgender and homosexuals come up as often if not more than the plights of woman. It might be tempting to see them as ideologically distinct, but in practice modern feminists are also LGBQT activists, and vice versa. To say that feminism is only about the rights of cis, heterosexual white woman is a gross mischaracterization of the movement.

See, the bolded thing is the only thing that matters in feminism. you can be straight and transgender and be a feminist as long as you care about WOMEN'S rights. You can be a feminist and fucking be against transegenders or hate gays. You can be a feminist and be racist. You can be feminist and be a trans, but still not give a shit about mens rights.

All that matters is that you care about WOMEN'S rights.

It's not *exclusive*. It means womens' rights *and* etc. You can call yourself a feminist, a humanist and a transgender activist and there is zero contradiction. The problem I have with the rather loud anti-fem crowd at the moment is they seem to me to kinda be saying "well because you guys are focused on womens' rights *only* (which is a mischaracterization) then we're gonna take our ball and go home."

Feminism grew out of movements asserting womens' rights, and now encompasses humanist values. The meaning of the word does seem to be changing to mean "those who focus exclusively on womens' rights" but that change seems to me to be driven more by the sexist crowd than by anyone else, so pardon me if I resent that a bit.

And the point is that mens' rights are already protected. It's not in the media because it's not news. Men do not face gender based discrimination as women do and *that is why* no one gives a shit about it. Apart from the deranged lunatics who feel threatened by movements seeking equality for women. Drinking Beverage

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-08-2014, 12:59 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(19-08-2014 12:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 12:32 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  See, the bolded thing is the only thing that matters in feminism. you can be straight and transgender and be a feminist as long as you care about WOMEN'S rights. You can be a feminist and fucking be against transegenders or hate gays. You can be a feminist and be racist. You can be feminist and be a trans, but still not give a shit about mens rights.

All that matters is that you care about WOMEN'S rights.

It's not *exclusive*. It means womens' rights *and* etc. You can call yourself a feminist, a humanist and a transgender activist and there is zero contradiction. The problem I have with the rather loud anti-fem crowd at the moment is they seem to me to kinda be saying "well because you guys are focused on womens' rights *only* (which is a mischaracterization) then we're gonna take our ball and go home."

Feminism grew out of movements asserting womens' rights, and now encompasses humanist values. The meaning of the word does seem to be changing to mean "those who focus exclusively on womens' rights" but that change seems to me to be driven more by the sexist crowd than by anyone else, so pardon me if I resent that a bit.

And the point is that mens' rights are already protected. It's not in the media because it's not news. Men do not face gender based discrimination as women do and *that is why* no one gives a shit about it. Apart from the deranged lunatics who feel threatened by movements seeking equality for women. Drinking Beverage

Or, you could, you know, call yourself a humanist and be done with it. I only refer to myself as a feminist when... Well, I never needed to clarify that I was one because a humanist technically is one. I never said they were exclusive, I just said that feminsim does tend to focus on the women's aspect of it (it even has fem in the fucking title).

Like I said, I would much rather see people adopt a gender neutral term for those advocating for the equality of both ALL SEXES(like I do). There is one: Humanist. I still don't understand how Humanist is not a better word for equality. It literally includes equality of ALL sexes, AND THEN SOME.

You're right, women do get discriminated against, and it does need to stop. However, I doubt that simply identifying yourself as a feminist would do much. Actions speak louder than titles in this instance.

Also definition of feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

While feminism might not be exclusive to women's rights, it puts an emphasis on women's rights. Feminism is a title that tends to focus you on ONE particular gender (women) (Something I think is inherently sexist in itself).

I would like women's inequality to just be called inequality. I think the emphasis on the gender is not going to solve things, and only creates backlash and conflict. Humans should strive to correct HUMAN inequalities, because its a HUMAN issue, not just a WOMEN issue.

You get me?

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19-08-2014, 01:08 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(19-08-2014 12:59 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 12:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  It's not *exclusive*. It means womens' rights *and* etc. You can call yourself a feminist, a humanist and a transgender activist and there is zero contradiction. The problem I have with the rather loud anti-fem crowd at the moment is they seem to me to kinda be saying "well because you guys are focused on womens' rights *only* (which is a mischaracterization) then we're gonna take our ball and go home."

Feminism grew out of movements asserting womens' rights, and now encompasses humanist values. The meaning of the word does seem to be changing to mean "those who focus exclusively on womens' rights" but that change seems to me to be driven more by the sexist crowd than by anyone else, so pardon me if I resent that a bit.

And the point is that mens' rights are already protected. It's not in the media because it's not news. Men do not face gender based discrimination as women do and *that is why* no one gives a shit about it. Apart from the deranged lunatics who feel threatened by movements seeking equality for women. Drinking Beverage

Or, you could, you know, call yourself a humanist and be done with it. I only refer to myself as a feminist when... Well, I never needed to clarify that I was one because a humanist technically is one. I never said they were exclusive, I just said that feminsim does tend to focus on the women's aspect of it (it even has fem in the fucking title).

Like I said, I would much rather see people adopt a gender neutral term for those advocating for the equality of both ALL SEXES(like I do). There is one: Humanist. I still don't understand how Humanist is not a better word for equality. It literally includes equality of ALL sexes, AND THEN SOME.

You're right, women do get discriminated against, and it does need to stop. However, I doubt that simply identifying yourself as a feminist would do much. Actions speak louder than titles in this instance.

Also definition of feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

While feminism might not be exclusive to women's rights, it puts an emphasis on women's rights. Feminism is a title that tends to focus you on ONE particular gender (women) (Something I think is inherently sexist in itself).

I would like women's inequality to just be called inequality. I think the emphasis on the gender is not going to solve things, and only creates backlash and conflict. Humans should strive to correct HUMAN inequalities, because its a HUMAN issue, not just a WOMEN issue.

You get me?


A2, two can play that game. Drinking Beverage


Humanism (Oxford Dictionary)
-Outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.


Notice how it doesn't state human or sexual equality, merely human importance and primacy over the divine and supernatural. If we're going to be pedantic and play definition word games, the sword cuts both ways; so please stop, it is very tiresome.

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19-08-2014, 01:17 AM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 01:26 AM by Atothetheist.)
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(19-08-2014 01:08 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 12:59 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Or, you could, you know, call yourself a humanist and be done with it. I only refer to myself as a feminist when... Well, I never needed to clarify that I was one because a humanist technically is one. I never said they were exclusive, I just said that feminsim does tend to focus on the women's aspect of it (it even has fem in the fucking title).

Like I said, I would much rather see people adopt a gender neutral term for those advocating for the equality of both ALL SEXES(like I do). There is one: Humanist. I still don't understand how Humanist is not a better word for equality. It literally includes equality of ALL sexes, AND THEN SOME.

You're right, women do get discriminated against, and it does need to stop. However, I doubt that simply identifying yourself as a feminist would do much. Actions speak louder than titles in this instance.

Also definition of feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

While feminism might not be exclusive to women's rights, it puts an emphasis on women's rights. Feminism is a title that tends to focus you on ONE particular gender (women) (Something I think is inherently sexist in itself).

I would like women's inequality to just be called inequality. I think the emphasis on the gender is not going to solve things, and only creates backlash and conflict. Humans should strive to correct HUMAN inequalities, because its a HUMAN issue, not just a WOMEN issue.

You get me?


A2, two can play that game. Drinking Beverage


Humanism (Oxford Dictionary)
-Outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.


Notice how it doesn't state human or sexual equality, merely human importance and primacy over the divine and supernatural. If we're going to be pedantic and play definition word games, the sword cuts both ways; so please stop, it is very tiresome.

Point. I was apparently misled. Will redefine my stance to the new data. See, thats what I do when I encounter me spouting a falsehood. I don't call it words games.

thanks for the new information. Will see if there is a word I can use to define myself as.

Edit: looks like I may be an Egalitarian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism (Also, occording to the definition, still a humanist.)

Also, the fuck is with the mean-spiritedness of the post, bro?

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19-08-2014, 01:36 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(19-08-2014 01:17 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 01:08 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  A2, two can play that game. Drinking Beverage


Humanism (Oxford Dictionary)
-Outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.


Notice how it doesn't state human or sexual equality, merely human importance and primacy over the divine and supernatural. If we're going to be pedantic and play definition word games, the sword cuts both ways; so please stop, it is very tiresome.

Point. I was apparently misled. Will redefine my stance to the new data. See, thats what I do when I encounter me spouting a falsehood. I don't call it words games.

thanks for the new information. Will see if there is a word I can use to define myself as.

Edit: looks like I may be an Egalitarian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism (Also, occording to the definition, still a humanist.)

Also, the fuck is with the mean-spiritedness of the post, bro?

Also, for anyone interested in futher reading, here are some articles on humanists and what they believe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
http://americanhumanist.org/Who_We_Are/About_Humanism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humanist

Also, dictionary.com defines Humanist as "a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values, and dignity."

Now, here is some further reading on Egalitarianism, for your pleasure:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...itarianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism

definition of egalitarian via Google: "of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities."

Personally, not too sure of the Are Equal part (since some people aren't born equal to others). But the rest I agree with.

So, there still is a gender neutral term for what I am talking about. Drinking Beverage

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19-08-2014, 01:51 AM
RE: Probing Men's Rights
(19-08-2014 12:59 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Or, you could, you know, call yourself a humanist and be done with it. I only refer to myself as a feminist when... Well, I never needed to clarify that I was one because a humanist technically is one. I never said they were exclusive, I just said that feminsim does tend to focus on the women's aspect of it (it even has fem in the fucking title).
Or you could, you know, fuck off and not tell me what to call myself Smile

Quote:Like I said, I would much rather see people adopt a gender neutral term for those advocating for the equality of both ALL SEXES(like I do). There is one: Humanist. I still don't understand how Humanist is not a better word for equality. It literally includes equality of ALL sexes, AND THEN SOME.
Isn't that delightful.

Quote:You're right, women do get discriminated against, and it does need to stop. However, I doubt that simply identifying yourself as a feminist would do much. Actions speak louder than titles in this instance.
So me identifying as a feminist automatically means that I am not doing any actions, just getting my rocks off being all angry about discrimination? You really know how to endear yourself to a guy.

Quote:Also definition of feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

While feminism might not be exclusive to women's rights, it puts an emphasis on women's rights. Feminism is a title that tends to focus you on ONE particular gender (women) (Something I think is inherently sexist in itself).

I would like women's inequality to just be called inequality. I think the emphasis on the gender is not going to solve things, and only creates backlash and conflict. Humans should strive to correct HUMAN inequalities, because its a HUMAN issue, not just a WOMEN issue.

You get me?
No. I don't get you. As EK said, this fussing over definitions and what not is somewhat tiresome. Since we agree that discrimination is taking place, let's focus on that and if I want to call myself a feminist and you want to call yourself a humanist that's fine.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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