Prolife???
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06-10-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: Prolife???
In Australia, a termination is legal until the 24th week of gestation—or the medically-accepted age of foetal viability. As far as I'm concerned, any/all pregnant women have every right to make decisions about their biological functioning without the intervention of any state authority—and in particular, free of coercion by any religious group.

In the US in 1973, in Roe vs. Wade (and the legalisation of abortion question), it was determined that foetal viability was an important legal concept. The Supreme Court ruled that states cannot put the interests of a foetus ahead of the interests of the pregnant woman until the foetus is "viable."

This is an image of a four-week-old fetus...

[Image: 4w0d.jpg]

It's important to note that this image
is magnified more than 20x times.


At this stage, few people other than medical professionals would even recognise it as a human foetus, as its true size of 1/8th inch (3.5mm) totally disguises its identity. To describe this lump of parasitic tissue as a "human being" is ludicrous (unless you're a Christian zealot of course).

Dodgy

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06-10-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Prolife???
I remeber the very day I became a pro-choicer.

My health teacher in high school invited two speakers to the class. A pro-life and Pro-choice. Being religious at the time I was on the side of the Pro-life. It sound more positive. The woman speech dealt a lot with religion and talking about women that choise to keep the baby over murdering it. She showed images of mutilated fetuses. I recall even one of the girls in my class getting up crying and running out of the class room. I don't know why, my imagination says she may had had one. We were around 16-17 at the time.

The next day the "anti-lifer" came in. She was much more level headed then the woman the previous day. She talked about the options, even brought in the vaccum the dr's use. How other people didn't have the right over your body. And being a pro-choice didn't mean you didn't have to get one, or not. I think i recall even saying something along the lines "I'm a Catholic so I don't feel killing a child is moral." Her response was "That's fine. You don't have agree with the action. But isn't it much more preferable to know people have the choice over being force to have only one choice."

It was quiet and eye opening experience for me. And she made the woman from the day before come off like a monster.


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06-10-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: Prolife???
The biggest issue I have with 'pro-lifers' (I just love how right-wingers love to spin words so they look so righteous), is the fact that they REALLY don't practice what they preach. Most of them have a very fuck you attitude when it comes to single mothers, or poor and/or minority children... Who gives a shit once the child is actually born.
Let's face it, very little burden falls on the man who injected the sperm, the onus tends to fall squarely on the woman. That's why I fucking HATE when male 'pro-lifers' are so damn vocal.
They are anti-abortion because SLUTS and ABSTINENCE and JESUS.

I really believe it is more about hating women than it is about 'saving a life'.
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06-10-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: Prolife???
@ShadowProject

But do "pro lifers" really claim that they're interested in well being of children or they merely spew nonsense about sanctity of life when it comrs to fetuses?

In my view being "pro life" is about control, it shows authoritarian tendencies in whoever suscribe to such view. It should be relic of times long past but sadly there are still people who think that they can force their primitive taboos onto others.

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06-10-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Prolife???
(06-10-2016 08:49 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  Now as an atheist I am ok with contraception and birth control and abortion...... But Im confused about the issue of Personhood and wether or not a fetus....zygote is a person or not. But now I am more than prochoice....I am Pro-woman.....

I do agree that most pro choice people are atheist because we don't let an imaginary god get in our way of thought but some religious people also agree. To most pro choice people it isn't about it being a baby vs a fetus. I think it is more about the wellness of the woman carrying the baby/fetus. We care more about the person in front of us that has a life, family that loves them and would care if they died over something growing inside of them. Yes it will become a baby but it isn't yet.

Now with that said I do NOT condone abortions as a means of birth control. Sadly though if you put stipulations on it you are taking away rights so you need to take the good with the bad. I couldn't imagine if they made rules for only those with serious health issues or rape victims and then someone being raped but not having proof it was rape and having to go through with the pregnancy. To live with a reminder of your rape daily and be forced by mother nature to love the spawn of your rapist is horrible. And on the other hand being the child and knowing what you remind your mother of... a fetus that never had life can never miss it. Best be done with it than cause trauma for everyone involved.
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06-10-2016, 08:55 PM
RE: Prolife???
I know I've talked to people before who say they're against abortion and would consider themselves pro-life because they themselves would never get an abortion.

But that's really not what it's about. It's about every pregnant person's right to make choices about their own body.

Big Think had Bill Nye do a good piece talking about the personhood argument.
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06-10-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Prolife???
I think fetuses become people around the age of 35.

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07-10-2016, 04:07 AM
RE: Prolife???
(06-10-2016 09:37 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I think fetuses become people around the age of 35.

At which point abortions should still be allowed in some cases.

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07-10-2016, 09:51 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2016 10:02 AM by Loom.)
RE: Prolife???
I got into it with my mom the other day after watching the vice canidate debate...she's pro-life. I don't think she knew I was pro-choice, so I kinda made her mad.

She's pro-life because she thinks personhood begins at conception. Something about the Bible verse that says "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you."

Therefore a zygote has a soul and is already a person. Nevermind that the zygote is literally only a clump of cells, naturally aborts about half the time, and could split into twins or more, I didn't get to ask her if god ever popped in multiple souls into em or what happened to the souls after they naturally aborted.

I tried to explain to her that you can't exactly consider a zygote or even a fetus (until late stages), a person, seeing as their brain hasn't even developed. She looked at me funny when I told her that 'we', as in our consciousness/sentience, are a product of the brain. Without a brain, there is no 'you,' just a sac of flesh. That is why people have personality changes or become vegetables when their brain is damaged or dead. It's why anaesthesia works. And that we have no evidence, nada, zilch, to even suggest that consciousness persists after the death of the brain--or before it's formation.

I don't think she's ever educated herself on the brain if she thinks a soul is effectively consciousness. She ended our 'debate' as soon as I explained consciousness to her and how it applies to fetuses.

We didn't even get into ectopic pregnancies, severe birth defects, threats to the mother's health, the rights of a woman to her body, abortions in the bible (and god-approved dashing of infants on rocks), and the dangers that illegalizing abortions bring, cuz people would still have em.

-sigh-

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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07-10-2016, 02:44 PM
RE: Prolife???
Well said Loom; a nicely convincing statement of fact. Smile

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