Prolife???
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08-10-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: Prolife???
(08-10-2016 07:19 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 05:58 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I disagree. I couldn't care less about what society need or "need" when primary cost is being shouldered by individual in question.

Abortion should be freely available I think as world need not unwanted children. Mainly though women had right to decide and it supersede all others consideration in my opinion.

Well sometimes society does have needs, and sometimes they override individual rights, no different than individual rights override society.

Sometimes society may wish that it alleged needs should override individual rights. In case of abortion I say go fuck yourselves to whatever society claims it need; no one has the right to burden the would be mother with unwanted child.

(08-10-2016 07:19 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Plus you need a population(or at least a strong one) to keep a society up, as it is made up of people.

Then it could be supplied by willing individuals. Alleged need for manpower does not trump individual right in my view.

(08-10-2016 07:19 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I ain't against abortion, but sometimes we have to think beyond the individual, no different than we have to think about the individual.

I care not about abortion itself, only about freedom being in danger. "We need more people" cries reminds me of nationalists screams about others outbirthing them and I see no reason for such cries outweighing individual rights.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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08-10-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Prolife???
The 'be fruitful land multiply' people lost a huge foothold when relatively effective contraception came around...the pill, shots, IUD.

Their last grasp (and gasp) at control is the anti-abortion stance. They have no choice but to appeal to emotion and that is why they scream so loudly that as soon as the spermatozoa imbeds itself into the egg that it's a person and has a soul. It's easy to grasp that it's not a person in a scientific sense so they take it upon themselves to attach a soul, potential, and personhood to it.

It's seemingly easy to set aside the fact that many pregnancies end before the mother even knows she is pregnant, apparently their god likes cells with souls.

Though quite pro-choice, I am uncomfortable with abortion as a form of birth control. It's a procedure that shouldn't be taken lightly, as is any medical procedure, but sometimes the situation warrants an abortion and a legal, safe one should be available.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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08-10-2016, 08:12 AM
RE: Prolife???
(08-10-2016 07:31 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Sometimes society may wish that it alleged needs should override individual rights.

I can see where I went wrong. I made a false dichotomy as if it is either individual rights or the common good, instead of realizing that there might be a way to think of the common good and society without infringing on individual rights.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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08-10-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Prolife???
(08-10-2016 08:12 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 07:31 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Sometimes society may wish that it alleged needs should override individual rights.

I can see where I went wrong. I made a false dichotomy as if it is either individual rights or the common good, instead of realizing that there might be a way to think of the common good and society without infringing on individual rights.

I don't see much room for compromise here as curtailing access to contraception and/or abortion results in suffering of individuals all in name of alleged societal needs. Decision about having children should concern would be parents not society even if said society is willing to shoulder the cost of raising children unwanted but born thanks to abortion ban; life of woman is more threatened by birth than legal abortion after all.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-10-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: Prolife???
(08-10-2016 10:31 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 08:12 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I can see where I went wrong. I made a false dichotomy as if it is either individual rights or the common good, instead of realizing that there might be a way to think of the common good and society without infringing on individual rights.

I don't see much room for compromise here as curtailing access to contraception and/or abortion results in suffering of individuals all in name of alleged societal needs. Decision about having children should concern would be parents not society even if said society is willing to shoulder the cost of raising children unwanted but born thanks to abortion ban; life of woman is more threatened by birth than legal abortion after all.

When I think of a population need the first thing to come up is japan.

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08-10-2016, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2016 11:47 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Prolife???
(08-10-2016 11:25 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 10:31 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't see much room for compromise here as curtailing access to contraception and/or abortion results in suffering of individuals all in name of alleged societal needs. Decision about having children should concern would be parents not society even if said society is willing to shoulder the cost of raising children unwanted but born thanks to abortion ban; life of woman is more threatened by birth than legal abortion after all.

When I think of a population need the first thing to come up is japan.

Too many old people there and not enough young I guess. But banning or rather limiting access to abortion is hardly a solution and intolerable intrusion on freedom of individuals. Also keep in mind that even with restrictive law in place there still is the issue of underground abortions and/or abortion tourism.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-10-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Prolife???
(08-10-2016 11:32 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 11:25 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  When I think of a population need the first thing to come up is japan.

Too many old people there and not enough young I guess. But banning or rather limiting access to abortion is hardly a solution and intolerable intrusion on freedom of individuals. Also keep in mind that even with restrictive law in place there still is the issue of underground abortions and/or abortion tourism.

True. Also japan has a shitty immigration system

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08-10-2016, 12:13 PM
RE: Prolife???
(08-10-2016 11:57 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 11:32 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Too many old people there and not enough young I guess. But banning or rather limiting access to abortion is hardly a solution and intolerable intrusion on freedom of individuals. Also keep in mind that even with restrictive law in place there still is the issue of underground abortions and/or abortion tourism.

True. Also japan has a shitty immigration system

Shitty? As in too restrictive? If so more open system would too have some issues.

From my pov answer to population problem does not lie in coercion and banning but rather providing utilities for would be parents. Utilities, incentives and guarantees of work still being available after birth of a child.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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14-12-2016, 04:04 AM
RE: Prolife???
The day that I became truly prochoice is the day I had my first abortion. I have been in the circumstances of having had an abortion, parenting and having placing a child for adoption. Each choice I made came with pros and cons. At the end of the day though, I made the right choices for me at the time that I could.
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14-12-2016, 04:54 AM
RE: Prolife???
At work.

Hug Newwynter
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