Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
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26-05-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(22-05-2015 10:17 AM)Ace Wrote:  
(22-05-2015 10:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Of course the holocaust was bad. I believe in evil. But skeptics are quick to point out God's evil and forget that the evil in them is the same evil in the Nazis. The Nazis were people.

Also, words like justice and mercy are mere platitudes without action and rules. The Bible provides rules.

the bible also says god committed genocide and infanticide on a global scale who also endorses this

good and evil are not objective terms, they are subjective in every way imaginable way

Rather, the Bible says God is in charge of life and death and has appointed times for both for each person. Infanticide et al refer to people trying to set their times on God's behalf.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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26-05-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
All,

You are on the horns of a dilemma, if not THE dilemma. Whether or not there can be objective morality if we use our subjective minds to make it up as we go!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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26-05-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(26-05-2015 02:19 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-05-2015 10:17 AM)Ace Wrote:  the bible also says god committed genocide and infanticide on a global scale who also endorses this

good and evil are not objective terms, they are subjective in every way imaginable way

Rather, the Bible says God is in charge of life and death and has appointed times for both for each person. Infanticide et al refer to people trying to set their times on God's behalf.

This seems strange in relation to the Bible because of times that God seems to kill or have people killed right after an action they took. So are you saying God just knew that at that time they'd die, but didn't cause the reason for their death?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-05-2015, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2015 06:22 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(26-05-2015 02:20 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

You are on the horns of a dilemma, if not THE dilemma. Whether or not there can be objective morality if we use our subjective minds to make it up as we go!

I don't see a dilemma. What practical difference does it make? More meaningless pseudo-intellectual mental masturbation is what I see.

#sigh
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27-05-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
Clyde and Girly,

There isn't one will - man's only.

There isn't one will - God's predeterminations only.

There are two wills, multiple wills, people have free will.

You won't murder someone because you fear God's judgment and because you respect the lives of others. If someone murders you, they both killed you and God allowed them to do so. Should make us think...

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27-05-2015, 10:03 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(27-05-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Clyde and Girly,

There isn't one will - man's only.

There isn't one will - God's predeterminations only.

There are two wills, multiple wills, people have free will.

You won't murder someone because you fear God's judgment and because you respect the lives of others. If someone murders you, they both killed you and God allowed them to do so. Should make us think...

Well shit, I have a couple hundred million accomplice murder charges that God should be presented with.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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27-05-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(27-05-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Clyde and Girly,

There isn't one will - man's only.

There isn't one will - God's predeterminations only.

There are two wills, multiple wills, people have free will.

You won't murder someone because you fear God's judgment and because you respect the lives of others. If someone murders you, they both killed you and God allowed them to do so. Should make us think...

My point was it seems particularly odd that God has certain justifications for killing or having people killed in the bible... if he already had predetermined they would die at that time. Yet you still determine they clearly had free will... yet either way what they chose they would die.

For instance, what does it matter if Onan impregnates his brothers wife or not? God already had determined Onan would die at the time. So it wasn't because of his action, if God doesn't design actions and gives total free will, then it's only because his time was up he died. If he choose to go along with the order and impregnate her, he still would of died shortly after. Either that choice isn't what had God kill him or God does factor in decisions that will happen a bit which negates some element of free will.

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27-05-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(27-05-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Clyde and Girly,

There isn't one will - man's only.

There isn't one will - God's predeterminations only.

There are two wills, multiple wills, people have free will.

You won't murder someone because you fear God's judgment and because you respect the lives of others. If someone murders you, they both killed you and God allowed them to do so. Should make us think...
I won't murder someone because I respect others, god has nothing to do with it.


The fact that you find it necessary to attempt to insert a fear of god in others to explain your position only highlights how weak your position truly is.
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28-05-2015, 07:42 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
All,

Here's what you missed. Culpability, in the minds of reasonable people, should be relative. We all know the differences between premeditated murder and crimes of passion, and different penalties apply.

If I shoot you dead, there are three of us involved:

1. I shot

2. You failed to duck or dodge

3. God chose not to block the bullet, dry the powder in the gun, etc.

Who is the MOST guilty? The most culpable? Not, perhaps, the one with the most power, because all three persons here have free will. I wouldn't believe anyone here who said God and not I was the most guilty. And if you feel differently, try being accused of murder and saying God or the devil made you do it, and see where that gets you...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-05-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(28-05-2015 07:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Here's what you missed. Culpability, in the minds of reasonable people, should be relative. We all know the differences between premeditated murder and crimes of passion, and different penalties apply.

If I shoot you dead, there are three of us involved:

1. I shot

2. You failed to duck or dodge

3. God chose not to block the bullet, dry the powder in the gun, etc.

Who is the MOST guilty? The most culpable? Not, perhaps, the one with the most power, because all three persons here have free will. I wouldn't believe anyone here who said God and not I was the most guilty. And if you feel differently, try being accused of murder and saying God or the devil made you do it, and see where that gets you...

Well the legal system doesn't matter because it doesn't accept your assumptions of a God/Devil possibly existing, gladly. This isn't at all relevant to a legal system because your concepts of God are constructing a total different situation.

If God pre-determines everyone death time like you've indicated before. God already plans for that guy to guy there, so he is going to go with it. It's your case that if he wasn't choosing that time, he would "jam" the gun or do something of that nature? Exactly how is that giving the humans free will still? So he just stops their actions if it violates his already set up timeline... that's not really being free that's having a set universe of life-beginning and life-ending.

Nothing anyone does is really WHY they die, it's just well God chose that was the time before hand. To give the exampled reason why, like Oh he fell off that cliff or God didn't like his not impregnating his wife or he got shot; Those people died because God already set THAT is the time they die. If God didn't choose that, they could have done those actions or been shot and still survived.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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