Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
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01-06-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(28-05-2015 09:35 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 07:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Here's what you missed. Culpability, in the minds of reasonable people, should be relative. We all know the differences between premeditated murder and crimes of passion, and different penalties apply.

If I shoot you dead, there are three of us involved:

1. I shot

2. You failed to duck or dodge

3. God chose not to block the bullet, dry the powder in the gun, etc.

Who is the MOST guilty? The most culpable? Not, perhaps, the one with the most power, because all three persons here have free will. I wouldn't believe anyone here who said God and not I was the most guilty. And if you feel differently, try being accused of murder and saying God or the devil made you do it, and see where that gets you...

Well the legal system doesn't matter because it doesn't accept your assumptions of a God/Devil possibly existing, gladly. This isn't at all relevant to a legal system because your concepts of God are constructing a total different situation.

If God pre-determines everyone death time like you've indicated before. God already plans for that guy to guy there, so he is going to go with it. It's your case that if he wasn't choosing that time, he would "jam" the gun or do something of that nature? Exactly how is that giving the humans free will still? So he just stops their actions if it violates his already set up timeline... that's not really being free that's having a set universe of life-beginning and life-ending.

Nothing anyone does is really WHY they die, it's just well God chose that was the time before hand. To give the exampled reason why, like Oh he fell off that cliff or God didn't like his not impregnating his wife or he got shot; Those people died because God already set THAT is the time they die. If God didn't choose that, they could have done those actions or been shot and still survived.

I follow your logic, but you are adding special weight to God here, in terms of, first, you should consider the issues as if two people are involved without God. You want to shoot me, I don't want to be shot. We may both exercise our free will here, but "who wins"? The answer, isn't always the stronger or the person with the gun. Discuss.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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01-06-2015, 06:17 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(28-05-2015 07:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Here's what you missed. Culpability, in the minds of reasonable people, should be relative. We all know the differences between premeditated murder and crimes of passion, and different penalties apply.

If I shoot you dead, there are three of us involved:

1. I shot

2. You failed to duck or dodge

3. God chose not to block the bullet, dry the powder in the gun, etc.

Who is the MOST guilty? The most culpable? Not, perhaps, the one with the most power, because all three persons here have free will. I wouldn't believe anyone here who said God and not I was the most guilty. And if you feel differently, try being accused of murder and saying God or the devil made you do it, and see where that gets you...

How about (in context of this thread):

1. God tells you to shoot a guy and his wife and take his virgin daughter to bed her.

2. You shoot the guy and his wife and bed his virgin daughter.

Who is the most guilty?

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01-06-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(11-05-2015 02:04 AM)Eugryan Wrote:  Interesting proof that Moses was being instructed by God.
According to Numbers, Moses claimed that God instructed him to attack the Midianites and destroy them. They killed all including women children and infants except 2030 Virgins that they took ownership of. (they were listed in the spoils of war, along with the animals of course.)
So either;
1. God instructed Moses to destroy the Medianites to take their land animals and virgins. And he was ok with the slaughter of women and children, and lets face it the sexual assault of over 2000 virgins. (seriously, why save the virgins and kill the children and other women)
or
2. Moses was making it all up for his benefit and benefit of his people.

If a believer wants to believe the first they have to accept the God they worship has instructed horrible acts, and would be convicted as a war criminal today.

In any other context, this whole thing would be considered massively immoral and unjust and barbaric. But because God sanctioned it, then it must be okay.

Wow.
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02-06-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
Talk about shifting the goalposts!

WE are the killers and the oppressors. WE are the sinners. WE are culpable. Will we admit our imperfections, our sins, our stumblings, and trust Jesus to do what we cannot? Fill in the real gaps, not the knowledge gaps (though he does this, too) but the gaps in our behavior that make us imperfect people unfit to be in a perfect place of bliss?

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02-06-2015, 07:29 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(02-06-2015 07:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Talk about shifting the goalposts!

WE are the killers and the oppressors. WE are the sinners. WE are culpable. Will we admit our imperfections, our sins, our stumblings, and trust Jesus to do what we cannot? Fill in the real gaps, not the knowledge gaps (though he does this, too) but the gaps in our behavior that make us imperfect people unfit to be in a perfect place of bliss?

First let me apologise from the get go as I have not read through this thread and I am coming in a bit late in the game. But can you explain to me your above post please? How does Jesus fill in the gaps in our/your behaviour? Can you give an example of when Jesus has done this and how you know this is a result of Jesus?

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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03-06-2015, 01:54 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(02-06-2015 07:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Talk about shifting the goalposts!

WE are the killers and the oppressors. WE are the sinners. WE are culpable. Will we admit our imperfections, our sins, our stumblings, and trust Jesus to do what we cannot? Fill in the real gaps, not the knowledge gaps (though he does this, too) but the gaps in our behavior that make us imperfect people unfit to be in a perfect place of bliss?

We? I do not kill nor I oppress. Sin? I do not burden myself with such idiotic concept as there is no god. Also why should I trust some guy who nowadays goes by name Jesus? How trusting in some dead guy who might not even existed will help me?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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03-06-2015, 04:40 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
Am I being overly optimistic in expecting an answer to my question a couple of posts above? It is a genuine question, I would like to know how Jesus manifests and influences you and how you know it is, in fact, this long dead Jew (assuming he ever lived at all of course).

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

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03-06-2015, 11:44 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
Jesus gives me assurance of salvation. Salvation is, in part, that I have been forgiven for all my sins. All of them, past, present, future. Jesus didn't die so good people can go to heaven. He died and rose so anyone can go to heaven. He died to do what I cannot, and fills in the gaps in my life and lifestyle.

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03-06-2015, 01:52 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2015 02:16 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(03-06-2015 11:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus gives me assurance of salvation. Salvation is, in part, that I have been forgiven for all my sins. All of them, past, present, future. Jesus didn't die so good people can go to heaven. He died and rose so anyone can go to heaven. He died to do what I cannot, and fills in the gaps in my life and lifestyle.

You're just silly. The only thing which rises from the dead is the water bear. Are you saying Jesus was a water bear? ... Actually I think I could go along with that, the water bear is God. Hell, it even looks like God.
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03-06-2015, 09:28 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(03-06-2015 01:52 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 11:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus gives me assurance of salvation. Salvation is, in part, that I have been forgiven for all my sins. All of them, past, present, future. Jesus didn't die so good people can go to heaven. He died and rose so anyone can go to heaven. He died to do what I cannot, and fills in the gaps in my life and lifestyle.

You're just silly. The only thing which rises from the dead is the water bear. Are you saying Jesus was a water bear? ... Actually I think I could go along with that, the water bear is God. Hell, it even looks like God.
[Image: Waterbear_1.jpg]
Hail thy lord and savior, tardigrade!

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