Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
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04-06-2015, 04:03 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(03-06-2015 11:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus gives me assurance of salvation. Salvation is, in part, that I have been forgiven for all my sins. All of them, past, present, future. Jesus didn't die so good people can go to heaven. He died and rose so anyone can go to heaven. He died to do what I cannot, and fills in the gaps in my life and lifestyle.

I am still unclear as to what this actually means. How does this manifest in your life? How does he fill in the gaps in your life and how do you know it is Jesus that is doing this?

Are your feelings solely based on the writings in the bible and things preached in church? If so what has led you to trust in these things and the feelings that result from these? Such as the feeling that your sins have been forgiven, because from your post above I cannot see how this is anything more than a feeling.

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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04-06-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(04-06-2015 04:03 AM)Eva Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 11:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus gives me assurance of salvation. Salvation is, in part, that I have been forgiven for all my sins. All of them, past, present, future. Jesus didn't die so good people can go to heaven. He died and rose so anyone can go to heaven. He died to do what I cannot, and fills in the gaps in my life and lifestyle.

I am still unclear as to what this actually means. How does this manifest in your life? How does he fill in the gaps in your life and how do you know it is Jesus that is doing this?

Are your feelings solely based on the writings in the bible and things preached in church? If so what has led you to trust in these things and the feelings that result from these? Such as the feeling that your sins have been forgiven, because from your post above I cannot see how this is anything more than a feeling.

1. It is logical to think that if there is a heaven, only perfect people can be there. After all, if we are fighting in heaven, it's no longer a utopia. We have to live in 100% harmony there in every way.

2. I've never encountered a person who claimed imperfection, except Jesus.

3. The prophecies of the Bible demonstrate Jesus/God have foreknowledge and exist as a deity out of time/eternal.

4. Jesus substituted for us on the cross. He died not so we can be religious, good people, but died to do what we cannot, erase our imperfections and--in the next state of being--transform us into perfect people. Like Adam pre-Fall, we will have no sin.

5. Having trusted in Jesus for salvation decades ago now--gosh, it seems so long ago looking back--I've always had great assurance that I'm okay with God and at peace with the world.

6. This is more than a feeling:

a. mature Christians should be led by facts first, then maybe faith, then possibly feelings - the facts of #1-4 above, and also, frankly 5, are important

b. I've had a lot of time "in country" as a Christian to see Bible facts come to pass as I watched - as a child of God, I've been punished where I erred and rewarded where I did well - I've seen a lot of miraculous-level stuff - but before you get carried away, it was usually miracles of changed lives, restored families and marriages, people retreating successfully and much more than successfully from addictive behaviors, etc. - being "born again"

c. I deal with "God stuff" everyday, or almost nearly so, including a lot of seeing people respond positively to salvation - that instead of laboring to become what they can never be on their own - utterly refined, utterly without weaknesses or imperfections - that God loves them utterly and covers their "gaps"...

...How about you? What might be preventing you from trusting in Jesus today?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-06-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(04-06-2015 08:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. I've never encountered a person who claimed imperfection, except Jesus.

I do not think that says what you think it says.

#sigh
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04-06-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(04-06-2015 08:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...How about you? What might be preventing you from trusting in Jesus today?

People like you. You're a horrible representative.

#sigh
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04-06-2015, 11:04 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(04-06-2015 08:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 04:03 AM)Eva Wrote:  I am still unclear as to what this actually means. How does this manifest in your life? How does he fill in the gaps in your life and how do you know it is Jesus that is doing this?

Are your feelings solely based on the writings in the bible and things preached in church? If so what has led you to trust in these things and the feelings that result from these? Such as the feeling that your sins have been forgiven, because from your post above I cannot see how this is anything more than a feeling.

1. It is logical to think that if there is a heaven, only perfect people can be there. After all, if we are fighting in heaven, it's no longer a utopia. We have to live in 100% harmony there in every way.

2. I've never encountered a person who claimed imperfection, except Jesus.

3. The prophecies of the Bible demonstrate Jesus/God have foreknowledge and exist as a deity out of time/eternal.

4. Jesus substituted for us on the cross. He died not so we can be religious, good people, but died to do what we cannot, erase our imperfections and--in the next state of being--transform us into perfect people. Like Adam pre-Fall, we will have no sin.

5. Having trusted in Jesus for salvation decades ago now--gosh, it seems so long ago looking back--I've always had great assurance that I'm okay with God and at peace with the world.

6. This is more than a feeling:

a. mature Christians should be led by facts first, then maybe faith, then possibly feelings - the facts of #1-4 above, and also, frankly 5, are important

b. I've had a lot of time "in country" as a Christian to see Bible facts come to pass as I watched - as a child of God, I've been punished where I erred and rewarded where I did well - I've seen a lot of miraculous-level stuff - but before you get carried away, it was usually miracles of changed lives, restored families and marriages, people retreating successfully and much more than successfully from addictive behaviors, etc. - being "born again"

c. I deal with "God stuff" everyday, or almost nearly so, including a lot of seeing people respond positively to salvation - that instead of laboring to become what they can never be on their own - utterly refined, utterly without weaknesses or imperfections - that God loves them utterly and covers their "gaps"...

...How about you? What might be preventing you from trusting in Jesus today?

Lack of evidence and I read the bible. Worst book I've ever read. Jesus needs anger management classes, particularly when he curses the fig tree.

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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04-06-2015, 12:44 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(03-06-2015 11:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus gives me assurance of salvation. Salvation is, in part, that I have been forgiven for all my sins. All of them, past, present, future. Jesus didn't die so good people can go to heaven. He died and rose so anyone can go to heaven. He died to do what I cannot, and fills in the gaps in my life and lifestyle.

Future sins!

So you have been pre-forgiven for any bad deeds you may do. Even the un-forgivable ones?
I suppose this explains why the prisons are full of Christians protesting their innocence. If God has forgiven them and let them off the hook, why hasn't society?
Seems a bit dodgy to me.

What do you mean Life is short. It's the longest thing you're going to do.
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04-06-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(04-06-2015 08:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...How about you? What might be preventing you from trusting in Jesus today?

Not being indoctrinated.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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05-06-2015, 02:15 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(11-05-2015 02:04 AM)Eugryan Wrote:  Interesting proof that Moses was being instructed by God.
According to Numbers, Moses claimed that God instructed him to attack the Midianites and destroy them. They killed all including women children and infants except 2030 Virgins that they took ownership of. (they were listed in the spoils of war, along with the animals of course.)
So either;
1. God instructed Moses to destroy the Medianites to take their land animals and virgins. And he was ok with the slaughter of women and children, and lets face it the sexual assault of over 2000 virgins. (seriously, why save the virgins and kill the children and other women)
or
2. Moses was making it all up for his benefit and benefit of his people.

If a believer wants to believe the first they have to accept the God they worship has instructed horrible acts, and would be convicted as a war criminal today.

Either a biblical god carried out evil acts or the people that wrote the bible want others to think he did.

For me, this typifies the multiple changes god's personality seems to undergo in the bible. Either in reality, if you are a believer, or as a theistic device if you believe the bible is anthropogenic.

The massive personality shift from a wrathful creator of oversized Judaic cruet sets to sulky, non-communicative teen-angst Christian god who sends his best mate in to chat up the congregation because he's locked himself in his room and is playing a choir of angels at full volume is worthy of note to the atheist observer. It certainly raises a valid challenge to the constancy of the Abrahamic deity or at very least suggests some unethical devices employed by early biblical scribes/teachers.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

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05-06-2015, 02:59 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(05-06-2015 02:15 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  The massive personality shift from a wrathful creator of oversized Judaic cruet sets to sulky, non-communicative teen-angst Christian god who sends his best mate in to chat up the congregation because he's locked himself in his room and is playing a choir of angels at full volume is worthy of note to the atheist observer.

I love this description of god as a sulky teenager. It fits his Christian persona so well.

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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05-06-2015, 11:01 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(04-06-2015 11:04 AM)Eva Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 08:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. It is logical to think that if there is a heaven, only perfect people can be there. After all, if we are fighting in heaven, it's no longer a utopia. We have to live in 100% harmony there in every way.

2. I've never encountered a person who claimed imperfection, except Jesus.

3. The prophecies of the Bible demonstrate Jesus/God have foreknowledge and exist as a deity out of time/eternal.

4. Jesus substituted for us on the cross. He died not so we can be religious, good people, but died to do what we cannot, erase our imperfections and--in the next state of being--transform us into perfect people. Like Adam pre-Fall, we will have no sin.

5. Having trusted in Jesus for salvation decades ago now--gosh, it seems so long ago looking back--I've always had great assurance that I'm okay with God and at peace with the world.

6. This is more than a feeling:

a. mature Christians should be led by facts first, then maybe faith, then possibly feelings - the facts of #1-4 above, and also, frankly 5, are important

b. I've had a lot of time "in country" as a Christian to see Bible facts come to pass as I watched - as a child of God, I've been punished where I erred and rewarded where I did well - I've seen a lot of miraculous-level stuff - but before you get carried away, it was usually miracles of changed lives, restored families and marriages, people retreating successfully and much more than successfully from addictive behaviors, etc. - being "born again"

c. I deal with "God stuff" everyday, or almost nearly so, including a lot of seeing people respond positively to salvation - that instead of laboring to become what they can never be on their own - utterly refined, utterly without weaknesses or imperfections - that God loves them utterly and covers their "gaps"...

...How about you? What might be preventing you from trusting in Jesus today?

Lack of evidence and I read the bible. Worst book I've ever read. Jesus needs anger management classes, particularly when he curses the fig tree.

I'm not sure whether to take you seriously here. The fig tree stands for Israel. It's a metaphor, a parable of how Jesus had visited Jerusalem three times in ministry and had to go the cross. Jesus said in Matthew 24:

"Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that my return is near—at the doors!"

Jesus wasn't angered that He couldn't get literal figs--He was headed to town where there were plenty of them, picked and ready.

Also, to be frank, I don't "buy" when someone says I won't trust in the NT Jesus because He seems angry. Sure, He was angry, particularly at people who were hypocritical in their religious attitudes. If He's angry, and the Lord of Judgment able to cast into Hell, that would be a good reason to be saved, not to avoid salvation.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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